Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

Status
Not open for further replies.
This is quite literally foreign policy 101. America has been dictating other countries actions, politics and direction for probably over a century now. Any powerful country does the same. You don't need to invade to change the direction of another country and haven't needed to for a very long time.

Whilst I partly agree, the vast majority is not done by threat or in particular invasion.
I agree the US has some sketchy history here, but its all based on response as opposed to starting it, where as the current situation is very much unlike that

And yes of course part of being the biggest strongest is getting your way and having more influence.

I mean how do you contra someone who thinks we should be able to say to Germany they are not allowed nukes as they are a bit close to Russia.
 
"We are seriously concerned about your aggression of wanting to put defences against us near our borders".

Literally invades the next country over....
 
Whilst I partly agree, the vast majority is not done by threat or in particular invasion.
I agree the US has some sketchy history here, but its all based on response as opposed to starting it, where as the current situation is very much unlike that

And yes of course part of being the biggest strongest is getting your way and having more influence.

I mean how do you contra someone who thinks we should be able to say to Germany they are not allowed nukes as they are a bit close to Russia.

I'm not convinced that its that much better if you are just doing it in the shadows. What Russia is doing is awful and is directly killing people but is it any better to be killing people and ruining their future and quality of life via more covert means than direct ones?

Somewhat off topic I guess but IMO it doesn't matter how you get somewhere if the outcome is the same. America has meddled in so many countries that anyone who thinks America (and the UK etc) aren't just as bad as anyone else needs their head checking.
 
Donesk and Luhansk have some meaty natural gas reserves, plus pushing the border further towards the Carpathian mountains makes for a more defend-able position for Russia. Plus if they can gain control of the Dnieper river, they can re-open the fresh-water canals that feed Crimea that the Ukrainians blocked up.

Yeah. Also LOTS of really good wheat fields. I'm not saying that Donesk and Luhansk aren't strategically v important to Putin. They are. But they're not in anyway an end game. If it was this would all be over by now.
 
I've even seen it postulated on the news. It makes no sense. I think it's just wishful thinking.

Like back when it was hoped Hitler just wanted to take back territory lost at Versailles.

Putin wants to re-establish greater Russia. Anything else he says or looks like he's doing is just a play towards that goal.

NATO aggression, blah, blah, genocide and neo-nazis in Ukraine, blah blah, I'm not gonna nuke anyone blah, blah.

Putin and who's army is going to do this? He clearly doesn't have one, never mind a modern one that's fighting tooth and nail for him
 
I'm not convinced that its that much better if you are just doing it in the shadows. What Russia is doing is awful and is directly killing people but is it any better to be killing people and ruining their future and quality of life via more covert means than direct ones?

Somewhat off topic I guess but IMO it doesn't matter how you get somewhere if the outcome is the same. America has meddled in so many countries that anyone who thinks America (and the UK etc) aren't just as bad as anyone else needs their head checking.

I dont agree that we have caused anywhere near the same impact. I can see why some would think that, but personally I dont see it.
Maybe if you went back centuries and rolled it all up, but we have evolved.
 
Putin and who's army is going to do this? He clearly doesn't have one, never mind a modern one that's fighting tooth and nail for him

Well that's clearly the most perplexing thing. Where are the 50k odd of troops that got combat experience in Syria for instance?

It's almost like he's trying to sucker someone in.
 
"We are seriously concerned about your aggression of wanting to put defences against us near our borders".

Literally invades the next country over....

But that is what this is about in my opinion, Putin could not stand that Ukraine was not going to be his puppet and one day going to join nato or eu or whatever else in the future on his doorstep.

So he starts trouble on purpose and blames the invasion on everything under the sun except the truth.

There will be a puppet Gov in Ukraine before you know it and there will be mass murder, arrests with BS trials and executions. Right up Russias grotty street
 
When Putin finally takes Ukraine and occupies it, it will drag on for a long time.

How long do we keep the crippling sanctions that will be ruining innocent Russians lives? At what point do we start realising we could be causing a poverty and humanitarian crisis in Russia?
 
So, Russian state news agency RIA Novosti accidentally published their victory article a couple of days ago, it's "interesting" reading:

A new world is being born before our eyes. Russia's military operation in Ukraine has ushered in a new era - and in three dimensions at once. And of course, in the fourth, internal Russian. Here begins a new period both in ideology and in the very model of our socio-economic system - but this is worth talking about separately a little later.

Russia is restoring its unity - the tragedy of 1991, this terrible catastrophe in our history, its unnatural dislocation, has been overcome. Yes, at a great cost, yes, through the tragic events of a virtual civil war, because now brothers, separated by belonging to the Russian and Ukrainian armies, are still shooting at each other, but there will be no more Ukraine as anti-Russia. Russia is restoring its historical fullness, gathering the Russian world, the Russian people together - in its entirety of Great Russians, Belarusians and Little Russians. If we had abandoned this, if we had allowed the temporary division to take hold for centuries, then we would not only betray the memory of our ancestors, but would also be cursed by our descendants for allowing the disintegration of the Russian land.

Vladimir Putin has assumed, without a drop of exaggeration, a historic responsibility by deciding not to leave the solution of the Ukrainian question to future generations. After all, the need to solve it would always remain the main problem for Russia - for two key reasons. And the issue of national security, that is, the creation of anti-Russia from Ukraine and an outpost for the West to put pressure on us, is only the second most important among them.

The first would always be the complex of a divided people, the complex of national humiliation - when the Russian house first lost part of its foundation (Kiev), and then was forced to come to terms with the existence of two states, not one, but two peoples. That is, either to abandon their history, agreeing with the insane versions that "only Ukraine is the real Russia," or to gnash one's teeth helplessly, remembering the times when "we lost Ukraine." Returning Ukraine, that is, turning it back to Russia, would be more and more difficult with every decade - recoding, de-Russification of Russians and inciting Ukrainian Little Russians against Russians would gain momentum.

Now this problem is gone - Ukraine has returned to Russia. This does not mean that its statehood will be liquidated, but it will be reorganized, re-established and returned to its natural state of part of the Russian world. In what borders, in what form will the alliance with Russia be fixed (through the CSTO and the Eurasian Union or the Union State of Russia and Belarus )? This will be decided after the end is put in the history of Ukraine as anti-Russia. In any case, the period of the split of the Russian people is coming to an end.

And here begins the second dimension of the coming new era - it concerns Russia's relations with the West. Not even Russia, but the Russian world, that is, three states, Russia, Belarus and Ukraine, acting in geopolitical terms as a single whole. These relations have entered a new stage - the West sees the return of Russia to its historical borders in Europe . And he is loudly indignant at this, although in the depths of his soul he must admit to himself that it could not be otherwise.

Did someone in the old European capitals, in Paris and Berlin , seriously believe that Moscow would give up Kiev ? That the Russians will forever be a divided people? And at the same time when Europe is uniting, when the German and French elites are trying to seize control of European integration from the Anglo-Saxons and assemble a united Europe? Forgetting that the unification of Europe became possible only thanks to the unification of Germany, which happened according to the good Russian (albeit not very smart) will. To swipe after that also on Russian lands is not even the height of ingratitude, but of geopolitical stupidity. The West as a whole, and even more so Europe in particular, did not have the strength to keep Ukraine in its sphere of influence, and even more so to take Ukraine for itself. In order not to understand this, one had to be just geopolitical fools.

More precisely, there was only one option: to bet on the further collapse of Russia, that is, the Russian Federation. But the fact that it did not work should have been clear twenty years ago. And already fifteen years ago, after Putin's Munich speech, even the deaf could hear - Russia is returning.

Now the West is trying to punish Russia for the fact that it returned, for not justifying its plans to profit at its expense, for not allowing the expansion of the western space to the east. Seeking to punish us, the West thinks that relations with it are of vital importance to us. But this has not been the case for a long time - the world has changed, and this is well understood not only by Europeans, but also by the Anglo-Saxons who rule the West. No amount of Western pressure on Russia will lead to anything. Losses from the sublimation of confrontation will be on both sides, but Russia is ready for them morally and geopolitically. But for the West itself, an increase in the degree of confrontation incurs huge costs - and the main ones are not at all economic.

Europe, as part of the West, wanted autonomy - the German project of European integration does not make strategic sense while maintaining the Anglo-Saxon ideological, military and geopolitical control over the Old World. Yes, and it cannot be successful, because the Anglo-Saxons need a controlled Europe. But Europe needs autonomy for another reason as well — in case the States go into self-isolation (as a result of growing internal conflicts and contradictions) or focus on the Pacific region, where the geopolitical center of mavity is moving.

But the confrontation with Russia, into which the Anglo-Saxons are dragging Europe, deprives the Europeans of even the chance of independence - not to mention the fact that in the same way Europe is trying to impose a break with China . If now the Atlanticists are happy that the "Russian threat" will unite the Western bloc, then in Berlin and Paris they cannot fail to understand that, having lost hope for autonomy, the European project will simply collapse in the medium term. That is why independent-minded Europeans are now completely uninterested in building a new iron curtain on their eastern borders - realizing that it will turn into a corral for Europe. Whose century (more precisely, half a millennium) of global leadership is over in any case - but various options for its future are still possible.

Because the construction of a new world order - and this is the third dimension of current events - is accelerating, and its contours are more and more clearly visible through the spreading cover of Anglo-Saxon globalization. A multipolar world has finally become a reality - the operation in Ukraine is not capable of rallying anyone but the West against Russia. Because the rest of the world sees and understands perfectly well - this is a conflict between Russia and the West, this is a response to the geopolitical expansion of the Atlanticists, this is Russia's return of its historical space and its place in the world.

China and India , Latin America and Africa , the Islamic world and Southeast Asia - no one believes that the West leads the world order, much less sets the rules of the game. Russia has not only challenged the West, it has shown that the era of Western global domination can be considered completely and finally over. The new world will be built by all civilizations and centers of power, naturally, together with the West (united or not) - but not on its terms and not according to its rules.​

Via here. Putin will be howling at the moon next.

Well, if that is taken at face value, and let's face it we all need to use a lot of salt these days you can draw the conclusion that he only wants Ukraine in the short term so he's not going to Nuke it.

Some other insights...

1) Quite an old fashioned view of race although I am sure some will disagree :D i.e. your an X therefore you must be a Y. No room for the nurture part of the nature or nurture debate
2) Strong reliance on non US & EU approval for the action is assumed
3) Bearing in mind that most of the generation that remembered "the good old days" like him are on deaths door so I suspect he's panicking about the USSR being forgotten about
4) Wonders...Eastern Europe described as "Europeans" and Western Europe as "Anglo Saxons"...teeing up the "Europeans" as "free & willing" rejoiners like Ukraine?

Opinion piece.
 
Last edited:
It's not propaganda when they've been spotted in his country either, is it?
it's not propaganda to suddenly re-brand thermobaric explosions to "vacuum bombs" ?

should call them what they are instead "fuel air explosive" but I guess that's not as terrifying in peoples minds.

from a quick google using custom dates, seem the wiki page got updated fairly recently.


one thing thats apparent is the actions taken by a country don't matter, what matters is the people who are on the receiving end.

seems kinda racist
 
Last edited:
When Putin finally takes Ukraine and occupies it, it will drag on for a long time.

How long do we keep the crippling sanctions that will be ruining innocent Russians lives? At what point do we start realising we could be causing a poverty and humanitarian crisis in Russia?
Until he's gone and someone sane takes over.
 
When Putin finally takes Ukraine and occupies it, it will drag on for a long time.

How long do we keep the crippling sanctions that will be ruining innocent Russians lives? At what point do we start realising we could be causing a poverty and humanitarian crisis in Russia?

Indefinitely in my opinion else we risk it looking like we are just docking somebodies pocketmoney for a week.

Actions have consequences. The people then need to take that up with their government, no matter how hard that might appear. This isn't on us - its on Putin.
 
Indefinitely in my opinion else we risk it looking like we are just docking somebodies pocketmoney for a week.

Actions have consequences. The people then need to take that up with their government, no matter how hard that might appear. This isn't on us - its on Putin.
If they take it up with their government they normally end up in jail or worse
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom