Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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  • jonneymendoza said:
    Its about being aware of this. NOt brushing it under the carpet.

    ANd at times of war, why the hell are a select few stll being racist?!?! Its a conflic/war!!! work together and support eachother no matter where you come from!!

    THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO BE UNITED and working together!

    Treat everyone equally.
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    Doesn’t help support the narrative. If it was Russia you would hear nothing but. Perhaps it’s part of the same neo nazis reported attacking the separatists before the invasion?
 
This is interesting if you want to see the Russian perspective:

http://deryugina.com/a-view-from-russian-academia/
A View From Russian Academia


Along with several other Russian-speaking academics outside of Russia, I have been emailing thousands (yes, thousands!) academics in Russia urging them to take action to oppose the war. My letter to them can be found here (scroll down for an English translation). Most of the emails get no replies, but the replies I have gotten have made me truly appreciate how polarized the Russian population is. It’s one thing to imagine a Russian store clerk believing in the story of genocide, it’s another to hear an academic who has published in English-language journals profess such views. Propaganda does not necessarily discriminate.

Today, I received a reply that, based on other replies, captures the situation among Russian academics quite well, both the good and the ugly. With the academic’s permission, I am publishing the reply almost word-for-word (by request, I removed some small details so the academic cannot be identified). The English translation comes first (original Russian below). I also added a few links and notes for clarity.



English translation


“I want to assure you that I am very upset by what’s going on. I recently had a political discussion at work and learned the positions of some of my colleagues. Slightly less than half (me included) share your view, a few others (one of whom has relatives in Donetsk) think that Ukraine didn’t carry out the Minsk agreement and was shelling Donbas, as a result of which Ukraine provoked Putin to start all this and to end nationalism and genocide of residents of that region (they are still against military intervention, but think they would have started sooner or later regardless). One colleague thinks that, like Kosovo, Crimea was annexed legitimately (the region decided for itself) and DPR and LPR should follow its example, and a military operation will be helpful. And a few colleagues have communist viewpoints and think that Russians in Ukraine were being oppressed, that Ukraine wanted to be a threat to Russia and place weapons aimed at the Russian Federation in the East of the country (including in Crimea). They think that, sooner or later, Ukraine, together with Western countries, would have started an aggression against Russia and so in their view the destruction of the Russian economy because of this war is better than the destruction of Russia itself if it were to take no action with respect to Crimea and Donbas. And so they are expecting that Russia will gain control of Ukraine as a result of what’s going on now, after which it will install a puppet government or even try to annex the country or part of it.

I feel very uncomfortable that I am telling you other people’s personal views, and I ask you not to refer directly to what I said, but I hope that this somehow helps us understand the situation. Here is also my view as to why the Russian people are not protesting en masse:

  1. Negative influence of the USSR: beginning with the immigration after 1917 and Stalinist purges and ending with the destruction of the will to live freely to the falling apart of the country. People didn’t live normally and so don’t want to live normally now, those who protest are mostly very young.
  2. A non-trivial share of the people are idiots. They can’t or, for many reasons, don’t want to absorb non-one-sided information and just want to be “outside of politics”. And the most accessible information is, sadly, propaganda.
  3. Propaganda is literally EVERYWHERE. On TV it reaches absurd proportions, and besides that special bot farms write a huge number of online comments, forming a false public opinion and swaying those who are uncertain to their side.
  4. A huge army of siloviki (strongmen). Ukraine’s Maidan could happen because resistance [against the protestors] was not comparable to that of Russia and Belorussia. The Russian government has a huge horde of policemen and Rosgvardiya [National Guard of Russia] who get paid decent money just for brutally beating people who simply show up to a demonstration (and actually get pleasure out of doing so because they are idealistic and see enemies in those who show up). Then they imprison the people for 30 days and then create problems for them in their studies or work. And any resistance leads to a huge prison sentence. I’m not even mentioning, that people can be jailed for several years for tweets or social media posts (this is not an exaggeration!)
I hope this helps you understand the situation. I apologize for any colleagues and countrymen who may be responding to your email negatively.

PS I ask you to not group the nation of Russia together with Putin and his followers, but of course I understand all the aggression and hate toward us, those who act this way have their reasons…”
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Doobedoo said:

  • Doesn’t help support the narrative. If it was Russia you would hear nothing but. Perhaps it’s part of the same neo nazis reported attacking the separatists before the invasion?
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The what? There are no 'separatists', there are only Russian invaders and Putin puppets who have attacked Ukraine ever since they began their attempted theft of Donbas and Crimea.

Ukraine is an east European country, and eastern Europe is notoriously racist towards non-whites. That's why non-whites are having trouble at the border, while trying to enter Poland (another European country with a proud history of racism towards non-whites).

Nothing to do with 'neo-Nazis.'
 
! Ukrainian armed forces announced that they have killed maj. gen. Andrey Sukhovetskiy, a Spetsnaz commander and deputy chief of the 41 Army in Novosibirsk. This appears confirmed by a spokesperson of the Russian Paratroopers Union. If confirmed, major demotivator for RU.
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A blow to moral for the Russians
 
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Just on this, what kind of agreements are in place to prevent the helicopter being targetted?
 
This is interesting, Russian troops apparently being asked to sign papers to essentially backdate a discharge from the armed forces:


Youtube version, click on subtitles for a rough translation:
Ayahuasca said:
Just on this, what kind of agreements are in place to prevent the helicopter being targetted?
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Well likely just assurance and self-interest - they know they're going to have to have talks, they really want talks even for Russia to achieve it's goals... so shooting down a helicopter isn't in their interests as that just reduces the chance of talks in future.
 
Sankari said:
Because they are prioritising the Ukrainians.

They're not struggling to process other nations. They're making a decision to keep them in queues so they can get the Ukrainians through first.

.
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I asked previously but why give them priority? Their lives are also in danger.

Sankari said:
It may astonish you to learn that there's not a fleet of planes permanently on standby to take asylum seekers back to their country of origin at the drop of a hat. Each person has to be properly processed as soon as they enter, and that takes time.
.
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Did you forget that we some how managed to find planes to get people out of afghan?
Governments can and do charter planes. Considering all the flights to russia have been cancelled yes there are actually planes currently on standby.

dowie said:
Have you never been to a border? Or an airport for that matter?

No they wouldn't be easier to process - Ukrainians have been permitted to enter and can pretty much go straight through, obviously so can EU and UK and US citizens as they have visa waivers. Citizens of countries would need to be processed.

You're talking about a situation that occurred within just a few days of a war breaking out, the border controls don't instantly just stop, especially not in a time like that!
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Because these people are currently going on holiday to Poland and not fleeing conflict:rolleyes:

It makes perfect sense to leave them in Ukraine why they process their visa application rather than bringing them into the country and doing it. What a terrible excuse.
 
dowie said:
This is interesting, Russian troops apparently being asked to sign papers to essentially backdate a discharge from the armed forces:


Youtube version, click on subtitles for a rough translation:


Well likely just assurance and self-interest - they know they're going to have to have talks, they really want talks even for Russia to achieve it's goals... so shooting down a helicopter isn't in their interests as that just reduces the chance of talks in future.
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Interesting, that would make them terrorists by any standard, armed in a foreign nation, not member of any legitimate armed force.
Surely then we can all pile in to help with a terrorist threat :P
 
The first wave of 16000 foreign fighters have arrived in Ukraine to help defend the country against the Russian invasion according to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky on Facebook.
 
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