Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

Status
Not open for further replies.
Purgatory said:
Beautiful and haunting all at the same time. :(

This is what I keep hearing in my head last few days.

Click to expand...
I sat down last summer in my garden listening to the version of this on the same sound track entitled "I Could Have Done More" and even though I haven't seen the film (yet), I was fighting back the tears because it was just such an emotionally moving piece of music; even if you are not aware of the context and more so if you are.

It would make for a fitting theme to some of the scenes I've seen recently this past week or so of a poor dying woman lying in a shop door way with the bottom part of her left leg 10 metres away or the family of four lying dead or dying in the street with their luggage still held tightly in their hands.

People dying needlessly - wishing the world leaders could have done more...
 
Blackjack Davy said:
He could have simply have surrended when it was obvious that they didn't have a realistic chance of winning or even holding out against russia and avoided all the deaths himself. But decides to fight anyway and is angry when his neighbours don't want to join in and widen it further.
Click to expand...

He's doing what he needs to do for his own interests.

Trying to harass NATO and EU (neither of which Ukraine ever met the entrance requirements for) into going to open war for Ukraine without any previous agreements.

More importantly than that, Ukraine is being attacked by a nuclear power that keeps implying use of said nukes which means the stakes are too high to fudge the rules and run over the attacker with an obnoxiously powerful NATO force.

He's not going to get what he wants and Russia will capture large areas of Ukraine.

However Russia is making a special hell for itself, it's losing huge amounts of military and equipment and that's dwarfed by the economic losses that the sanctions are bringing. The "west" will keep stuffing Ukraine with military equipment so Russia will never be able to have any level of peace there.
 
Purgatory said:
Will you also surrender if they come to invade us too with the same excuse ?
Click to expand...

Obviously not, but I wouldn't expect another non aligned country to automatically come to my/our aid either if it means risking dragging them into a wider conflict. The fact is NATO is a defensive organisation and the day russian boots set foot on NATO soil I would expect nothing less than NATO to respond. But this isn't NATO's conflict (yet).

Its simply this: Putin is the aggressor here you, me, everyone knows that but the moment we jump in unilaterally that gives Putin the ammunition he needs to say "look NATO is attacking us when we didn't attack them!" We can't afford to be seen as aggressors against russia it has to come from Putin first because otherwise we're simply being dragged into a wider war. Russia's army is weak in ukraine because they're conscripts and attacking fellow slavs but if the West is seen as the aggressors do you think that would change? If they're defending mother Russia? They won't distinguish between Putin/russia when Russia's army is attacked by western powers.

The line in the sand is NATO's border and pray that Putin doesn't cross it because when he does its WW3 for sure. Even though whats happening in Ukraine is horrible WW3 would be a whole lot worse. How many will dies? Tens of thousands? Millions? If push comes to shove and I don't put it it past Putin to initiate WW3 just for the hell of it - we can't be seen to initiate it ourselves. We just can't.
 
MartinPrince said:
I sat down last summer in my garden listening to the version of this on the same sound track entitled "I Could Have Done More" and even though I haven't seen the film (yet), I was fighting back the tears because it was just such an emotionally moving piece of music; even if you are not aware of the context and more so if you are.

It would make for a fitting theme to some of the scenes I've seen recently this past week or so of a poor dying woman lying in a shop door way with the bottom part of her left leg 10 metres away or the family of four lying dead or dying in the street with their luggage still held tightly in their hands.

People dying needlessly - wishing the world leaders could have done more...
Click to expand...


Watch the movie and sit down and have a lot of drinks and food near by as you will not want to get up, it's a long movie but doesn't seem it when watching it.


This theme :-

People dying needlessly - wishing the world leaders could have done more...


It is about Oskar Schindler, he was the one saying "I could have done more" not the leaders. I will not say more but watch the movie as it is based on his life and events during WW2 and Hitler's Nazis. It's an amazing movie and I have it on at least 3 different formats, always one of my first buys when it comes to a new format. The music is amazing in all the movie.
 
Last edited:
What was different about Russia taking over Crimea in 2014, why did the west not react and impose the sort of financial sanctions we are seeing now then?

If they had reacted decisively back then would the invasion we are seeing today have been avoided?
 
France accuses UK of ‘lack of humanity’ after 150 Ukraine refugees turned away at Calais
French minister writes strongly-worded letter to Priti Patel saying UK’s response ‘completely unsuitable’

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/ukraine-refugees-france-uk-b2029536.html

France has accused Britain of “lacking humanity” in helping fleeing Ukrainians join their families in the UK via the French port city of Calais.

French interior minister Gerald Darmanin, in a strongly-worded letter to his British counterpart Priti Patel, urged London to set up a proper consular presence in Calais to issue visas after 150 Ukrainians were turned away and asked to obtain visas at UK consulates in Paris or Brussels.

The French minister, in his letter, said the UK’s response was “completely unsuitable” and showed a “lack of humanity” towards refugees “in distress”, reported news agency AFP.

“It is imperative that your consular representation, exceptionally and for the duration of this crisis, is able to issue visas for family reunification on the spot in Calais,” Mr Darmanin added.

France had announced last week that Britain would set up a pop-up visa centre in the port city after London announced a scheme to allow family members of Ukrainians settled in the UK to enter the country.


Following the announcement, hundreds of Ukrainians travelled to Calais in an attempt to reunite with their families in the UK.

“Our coasts have been the scene of too many human tragedies. Let’s not add to that those Ukrainian families,” Mr Darmamin added.

The number of refugees fleeing Ukraine is expected to reach 1.5 million as Russia’s unprovoked invasion of Ukraine entered the eleventh day on Sunday. The UN has warned that the war could displace nearly five million people.


Most refugees were seen moving to the west towards Poland, Slovakia, Romania, Moldova and Hungary. Poland, which has opened its doors to the lion’s share of Ukrainian refugees, has reportedly absorbed over 650,000 people.

The European Union has announced measures to accommodate the refugees for up to three years. British prime minister Boris Johnson last week promised to be “very generous” to refugees seeking safety.

Ms Patel on Friday formally launched the Ukraine family visa scheme during a visit to Madyka in eastern Poland on the border with the battered country.

“I have developed the Ukraine family scheme following discussions with the Ukrainian government and neighbouring countries and I am proud to have launched it within a matter of days, enabling Ukrainians with family in the United Kingdom to be welcomed safely, quickly and free of charge,” she said ahead of her visit.
 
Hotwired said:
Trying to harass NATO and EU (neither of which Ukraine ever met the entrance requirements for) into going to open war for Ukraine without any previous agreements.

More importantly than that, Ukraine is being attacked by a nuclear power that keeps implying use of said nukes which means the stakes are too high to fudge the rules and run over the attacker with an obnoxiously powerful NATO force.
Click to expand...

It's not as simple as that. The UK, USA and Russia gave a written guarantee that Ukraine's territory would not be seized when they persuaded Ukraine to give up its nuclear weapons in 1994 (Budapest memorandum), let alone suffer nuclear blackmail at the hands of Russia. If the Ukrainians still had those nukes the Russians would never have invaded them.

From a strictly moral viewpoint the UK and USA should have blocked a Russian invasion by putting in a no fly zone and a powerful army into Ukraine when Russia started massing forces on its border and intelligence came to light that they were going to invade soon. (Yes, I know this would have been ferociously expensive, very risky and have played into Putin's anti-Western narrative, but we had no business making that guarantee to Ukraine if we weren't prepared to at least take decisive deterrent action.)

Of course, we all know that the Budapest memorandum was just a scam by cynical politicians to get the Ukrainians to give up their nukes and in reality the UK/USA had no intention of going to war to protect Ukraine's territory/population, so now that the worst case scenario has materialised we hardly have clean hands.
 
Maple Leaf said:
It's not as simple as that. The UK, USA and Russia gave a written guarantee that Ukraine's territory would not be seized when they persuaded Ukraine to give up its nuclear weapons in 1994 (Budapest memorandum), let alone suffer nuclear blackmail at the hands of Russia. If the Ukrainians still had those nukes the Russians would never have invaded them.

From a strictly moral viewpoint the UK and USA should have blocked a Russian invasion by putting in a no fly zone and a powerful army into Ukraine when Russia started massing forces on its border and intelligence came to light that they were going to invade soon. (Yes, I know this would have been ferociously expensive, very risky and have played into Putin's anti-Western narrative, but we had no business making that guarantee to Ukraine if we weren't prepared to at least take decisive deterrent action.)

Of course, we all know that the Budapest memorandum was just a scam by cynical politicians to get the Ukrainians to give up their nukes and in reality the UK/USA had no intention of going to war to protect Ukraine's territory/population, so now that the worst case scenario has materialised we hardly have clean hands.
Click to expand...

No you have distorted what the agreement was. It was not ever a defence agreement but a promise that each of them would not invade or try to control Ukraine.

Scamming the whole lot off wikipedia, the UK, US and Russia agreed to:
  1. Respect Belarusian, Kazakh and Ukrainian independence and sovereignty in the existing borders.
  2. Refrain from the threat or the use of force against Belarus, Kazakhstan or Ukraine.
  3. Refrain from using economic pressure on Belarus, Kazakhstan or Ukraine to influence their politics.
  4. Seek immediate Security Council action to provide assistance to Belarus, Kazakhstan or Ukraine if they "should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used".
  5. Refrain from the use of nuclear arms against Belarus, Kazakhstan or Ukraine.
  6. Consult with one another if questions arise regarding those commitments.
Click to expand...

The UK and US hasn't broken any of that. They have not invaded, threatened or used force. Economic measures is probably grey given what the US gets up to.

The Security Council... well Russia is right there with a veto so there will be no assistance permitted against Russia. There is assistance being sent anyway but it's not part of any agreement.

Anyway basically Russia wiped its ass with it.

But Ukraine didn't make the nukes it had and couldn't maintain them so their value was paper. Come to that many of Russia's nukes are likely paper too but even a percentage of them being in good order is too many.
 
Last edited:
LCG-xyz said:
Couple of unfortunate facts...

97% of Ukrainians voted to be part of Russia:
The official result from the Autonomous Republic of Crimea was a 97 percent vote for integration of the region into the Russian Federation

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Crimean_status_referendum

"Anti-Oligarch" Zelenskiy features heavily in the Pandora Papers:
https://www.theguardian.com/news/20...dent-offshore-connections-volodymyr-zelenskiy

Stop allowing yourself to be wound up be the media and start looking for the truth.
Click to expand...


Okay Russian bot.
 
LCG-xyz said:
Nah, I'm pretty anti-Russia too, obviously not the people, I support the citizens of all nations. All I'm saying is don't accept what's on the spoon, Zelly is no angel despite being portrayed as the latest, hottest celebrity in town. This all goes a lot deeper than it appears on the surface, it's not black and white.

Other things I'm trying to verify is whether US biolabs are a factor, there documentation from China and Russia asking the UN to looking into it. I've seen the discord in Ukraine where a lot of people want to remain Russian, Russia never stopped seeing the Ukraine as part of it's territory, much like China and Taiwan.

All theses things are complicated, too complicated for most people to even look into. Most people just skim the headlines and form an opinion.

I don't claim to have the answers but I'm trying make things less black and white at least.
Click to expand...
No your not, your regurgitating Russian talking points while trying to be a fence sitter and appear “non biased”.

It’s pathetic, “both sides” blah blah.
Your accusing us of using main stream media. Most of the intel in this thread came from secondary and tertiary sources.

You are parroting the biolab nonsense seals it. I keep tabs on far right conspiracy forums, this is a commonly repeated talking point right now on them.
US bio labs lol.
 
Chojin said:
Yes Putin basically has carte blanche on his nuclear capabilities in many non-NATO countries and as NATO expands then his trump card becomes less powerful.

I can believe him being prepared to use it, but I don't think using it on Ukraine would be in his interests as he could just go the thermobaric and FOAB route and have the same level of destruction.

It's the countries that have supported Ukraine with lethal weapons that are outside NATO who are the most vulnerable. Countries like Canada and Australia that respresent the West but don't have the safety net of NATO. They could be made an example of by Putin.

There are other defensive agreements like AUKUS between Australia, UK and USA. But let's say Russia used a nuclear submarine on Australia because they supplied Ukraine with $50 million in lethal weapons. UK and USA can't attack Russia because that is a first strike. They could perhaps defend as a symbolic gesture but I think there would be little they could do.
Click to expand...

Canada is a founding member of NATO.

Australia has been a part of the five eyes inteligence for a long time. AUKUS simply adds a defence framework to that.

AUSCANNZUKUS is a strategic alliance for defence in the same way that AUKUS exists.
 
LCG-xyz said:
I saw an appeal to the UN about theses facilities from China and Russia, naturally they're a cause for concern so I thought I'd try and dig and see if I could find any information about these supposed labs, I found a credible link that at least established a connection between the US and the Ukraine in relation to bio labs. That was something at least, sadly I've run out of day to investigate further.

I'm not sure there's much more to tell, I have no bias or agenda in relation to any of this. Something smells funky so I'm digging.
Click to expand...


Lol China and Russia and especially China after thier little covid outbreak ......

Not much credit in the bank there.
 
LCG-xyz said:
Couple of unfortunate facts...

97% of Ukrainians voted to be part of Russia:
The official result from the Autonomous Republic of Crimea was a 97 percent vote for integration of the region into the Russian Federation

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Crimean_status_referendum

"Anti-Oligarch" Zelenskiy features heavily in the Pandora Papers:
https://www.theguardian.com/news/20...dent-offshore-connections-volodymyr-zelenskiy

Stop allowing yourself to be wound up be the media and start looking for the truth.
Click to expand...


Ah yes, THE vote, that happened after russia.had.invaded.

Bit like Hitler after invading all of Europe, when the SS and Gestapo went out to poll and conduct a vote 99.9% said yes,the rest went to some happy camps.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom