Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

[Twinz]

You can't tell if he's bluffing unless you take action that forces him to reveal his hand, at which point it could be too late and the nukes are already in the sky.

Enforcing the no fly zone means shooting down Russian planes which would certainly escalate things.

By the time we find out that Ukrain is just a stepping stone, we may realize we should have stopped him sooner.

We know now that Crimea was not enough for instance. That is information that should be useful to us, yet we seem to ignore the pattern forming right in front of us.

He he's not bluffing with nukes, then we shouldn't expect him to stop here and need to act sooner rather than later.

 

[D.P.]

No-one should take this silly threat seriously. If Putin escalates to war with NATO he loses and he knows it. He will not do it over the supply of planes.

I tend to agree with you, but the fact is sll NATO countries feel threatened or more likely don't want to enter a direct war with Russia due to economic snd political reasons. NATO countries could jave kicked up a big fuss in 2014 by they chose not to get involved.


The fact is you can't criticize Biden not committing to a no-fly zone or transferring Polish Migs without equally criticizing Boris and indeed all NATO leaders. No NATO country required NATO permission to transfer Migs

 

[Sankari]

Germany's upwards of one and a quarter million mainly undocumented middle eastern migrants will be interesting

~1.1 million at the latest estimate. A further 1.2 million unauthorised migrants are in the UK.

as to which side they favour when push comes to shove

Firstly, why would it matter which side they favour? Secondly, considering they've mainly been forced out of Syria (where Putin has been enthusiastically assisting Assad's brutal purge of anyone who doesn't agree with him on anything more controversial than the price of eggs) do you really think they'd favour Russia?

and the German population is shivering from cold and fear.

Why would the German population be shivering from cold and fear, and why wouldn't the undocumented migrants be shivering from cold and fear as well?

 

[D.P.]

You can't tell if he's bluffing unless you take action that forces him to reveal his hand, at which point it could be too late and the nukes are already in the sky.

Enforcing the no fly zone means shooting down Russian planes which would certainly escalate things.

if Putin is really mad enough to use nukes, then there is nothing stopping him using them later when the next event occurs. What happens if Finland join NATO and Putin threatend nuclear retaliation?

Russia will never control Ukraine, it will turn into another Vietnam/Afghanistan. Putin will only get pushed further into insignificance and the threat of nuclear measures will only increase IMO.

 

[dave28]

By the time we find out that Ukrain is just a stepping stone, we may realize we should have stopped him sooner.

We know now that Crimea was not enough for instance. That is information that should be useful to us, yet we seem to ignore the pattern forming right in front of us.

He he's not bluffing with nukes, then we shouldn't expect him to stop here and need to act sooner rather than later.

It isnt a stepping stone, Putin can barely take a small Eastern European City and is resorting to hiring private military groups because his own troops cant match Ukraine troops in a fire fight

 

[HungryHippos]

You have to draw the line somewhere, at some point, yes it may come down to calling his bluff, or blowing up the world.

But to do so over an a no fly zone in Ukraine I'm not sure would be wise. It's not as if the no fly zone will stop the bombings, they can still fire missiles and shells from the ground.

Best move I think we can play is to keep re-enforcing Ukraine with whatever we can, along with more and more sanctions where we can.

If Finland or Sweden joined NATO then I suspect we'd have boots on the ground and we'd be calling Putins bluff, he can then opt to fire the nukes and doom us all or not. If the war he's undertaken in Ukraine has shown anything, it's that the Russian army is a bit of a joke if this is the best he can do.

 

[Twinz]

It isnt a stepping stone, Putin can barely take a small Eastern European City and is resorting to hiring private military groups because his own troops cant match Ukraine troops in a fire fight

Tell yourself that. Putin obviously doesn't need conventional capabilities against NATO. His threat of nukes seems to keep us under control just fine.

 

[Iraklis F.C.]

i cant stand watching babies and toddlers waving goodbye to their daddies, i am feeling sick already. I have thoughts WW3 is maybe worth it, if we tolerate this then our children will be next, and i for one prefer a lift the burden rather for my kids to suffer.

 

[teenwolf]

i cant stand watching babies and toddlers waving goodbye to their daddies, i am feeling sick already. I have thoughts WW3 is maybe worth it, if we tolerate this then our children will be next, and i for one prefer a lift the burden rather for my kids to suffer.

gut wrenching totally despicable i cant even imagine how they must feel.

 

[jpaul]

mercenaries are cheaper than adverse publicity from home losses - how are they planning to pay them.

 

[Minusorange]

Toothless threat. Unless they want NATO to fully get involved.

If he attacks the convoys within Ukraine, NATO will again hide and not get involved for fear of provoking him

 

[StriderX]

Tell yourself that. Putin obviously doesn't need conventional capabilities against NATO. His threat of nukes seems to keep us under control just fine.

Our threat of nukes also keeps him out of the Baltics so it's hardly one-sided.

 

[Chojin]

I feel like Ukraine are way past the point of diplomacy and any concessions would be a loss for the free world.

I can't see a way out of this without stirring things up in Russia somehow. I wouldn't be against a Western-backed rebel group pushing into Russia. Test their fighting spirit in a defensive manner.

Sure they have nukes but they would be ineffective to a ground offensive, without anyone to directly point them at.

Basically if Putin thinks he can buy a win in Ukraine with mercenaries then the West can beat him at his own game.

 

[Terminal_Boy]

Russia say 16,000 fighters from middle east want to fight for them out of the goodness of their heart for Russia lol.
Yeah right, like there is no large sum of money exchanged hands to some other dictator rat

Fighting age males of Mediterranean and Arab appearance aren’t going to stand out at all in one of the most Caucasian countries in Europe, are they?

 

[MagicBoy]

I feel like Ukraine are way past the point of diplomacy and any concessions would be a loss for the free world.

As soon as the Russians started targeting civilians and levelling buildings diplomacy was pretty much done. The only acceptable agreement should be "hand back all territory including Crimea, get out of Ukraine, and send us a blank cheque to rebuild".

 

[Andrew_McP]

Vladimir Putin suffers a heart attack, and lapses into a coma. He awakes years later in a hospital bed, and confused, stumbles past the sleeping guard on his room door and out into the street. Discombobulated, he wanders the streets of Moscow trying to figure out what’s happened while he was out. Seeing a bar, he decides to get himself a drink to help gather his thoughts. So, sitting down he orders a Vodka, and after a few nervous sips, gathers the courage to ask the barman “What year is it?”, “2025” answers the barman, “Did we win?” Putin enquires, “Da” replies the barman, “Is Crimea ours?” he presses further, “Da” repeats the barman. Relieved, Putin throws back the rest of his Vodka. “So, what do I owe you for the drink?” asks Putin. “100 Hvyirna.” answers the barman….

Repeated because it deserves repeating.

 

[StuBob]

If the Western collective action was taken at the same speed and uniformity following Crimea we likely wouldn't be in the current situation.

Nonetheless when you xonsider how smoothly Crimea went for Putin and given how that situation unfolded with defections and such like you have to wonder if similar Intel and expectations were at play during this recent action. Did Putin and his team belive they had Intel or belief that they would actually have been welcome in Ukraine and the country wouldnhave been receptive to their 'liberation' mission? Given how big a miscalculation this seems to have been, not least the resistance of the Ukrainian people but also how unprepared or underrepresented the Russian military have been.

There's no doubt the were planning and likely expecting a very quick operation similar to Crimea but rolling into Kyiv and other key locations and overthrow the government before anyone could react. Both the Ukrainians and the Western response.

 

[Mr Jack]

I tend to agree with you, but the fact is sll NATO countries feel threatened or more likely don't want to enter a direct war with Russia due to economic snd political reasons. NATO countries could jave kicked up a big fuss in 2014 by they chose not to get involved.

The fact is you can't criticize Biden not committing to a no-fly zone or transferring Polish Migs without equally criticizing Boris and indeed all NATO leaders. No NATO country required NATO permission to transfer Migs

I wasn't blaming Biden (not sure why you thought I was?) and I agree that the West collectively failed in their approach to Russia in the last twenty years and especially since 2014. We misunderstand who Putin is, and what he wanted, and with hindsight I'm not sure why more wasn't made of what happened in Grozny.

 

[Mr Jack]

Fighting age males of Mediterranean and Arab appearance aren’t going to stand out at all in one of the most Caucasian countries in Europe, are they?

Given what happened in the Central Africa Republic where these mercenaries were employed before, I suspect they're being brought in as much to terrorise the population as they are to actually fight. But if they're coming straight from there I do wonder how they'll cope with a 30-40 degree drop in temperature especially as they are hopelessly under-equipped in general.

 

[D.P.]

I wasn't blaming Biden (not sure why you thought I was?) and I agree that the West collectively failed in their approach to Russia in the last twenty years and especially since 2014. We misunderstand who Putin is, and what he wanted, and with hindsight I'm not sure why more wasn't made of what happened in Grozny.

sorry, i wasn't saying you were blaming Biden. My original podt wss a reply to one of the usual ********** blaming Biden, which is ridiculous unless you blame every western leader.