Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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0007 said:
What do you guys think, will they be able to come up with a diplomatic solution? Or how do you see this panning out otherwise.
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I think Ukraine will eventually fold and grant Russia their key aims: commitments about not joining NATO, and acceptance of the loss of Crimea. If Ukraine can hang on to its EU ambitions, this may work out okay for them. As to the Eastern regions where Russia has been staging a "civil war" I don't think Russia will be granted their aims of independent regions that they can later annex or at least run as puppet states, but they may end up agreeing semi-autonomous regions with Ukraine.

But, really, who knows? Both parties need to get out of this, but whereas Putin is paying in blood he doesn't care about, an economy he doesn't care about, and political credibility (that he cares deeply about); Ukraine is paying in the blood of tens or hundreds of thousands of citizens, millions of refugees (many of whom will never return), massive lost of property and infrastructure, and the total collapse of their economy. I don't see Ukraine waiting this out long enough for Russia to fold completely.
 
0007 said:
So they're basically getting desperate, and completely don't care how they are perceived anymore.

What do you guys think, will they be able to come up with a diplomatic solution? Or how do you see this panning out otherwise.
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They NEED to come up with a diplomatic solution. Zelensky will have to swallow the bitter, illegal pill that is seeding territory to Russia and Putin will have to accept that Zelensky will remain in power. Both parties have a vested interest in ending this early, but none more so then Ukraine. The killing has to stop. It's awful and disgusting, but NOTHING is worth the price of dead children.
 
Amnesia said:
They've been doing that for the past week.
They don't need to march soldiers to their deaths since Ukraine doesn't really have a way of stopping the bombardment.

What some people here do not seem to grasp is that the sooner Zelensky can negotiate a peace deal the less concessions he will need to make.

It's easy for people here saying Ukrainians should fight to the death as it isn't their lives that are getting lost, it isn't their wives and daughters looking for random strangers to live with in another country, it isn't their country that is getting blown to bits.

They have a hate for Putin but want other people to lose their lives fighting him.

An earlier peace deal would have been much more beneficial for Ukraine, look at how much damage has been done.
Now there is a good chance not only will Putin demand Ukraine not become part of NATO but also he may take a chunk of the country too.
Accepting Ukraine not join NATO alone would be seen as a loss for Putin after committing so much, he will want more.
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It takes two sides to make what you are talking about a reality - you seem blind to the terms Russia has been bringing to the table and the level of untrustworthiness they are bringing with it. There has been no possibility of negotiating a peace deal which would have been at all good for Ukraine. For the first couple of weeks it was Russia's way or the highway.
 
Custor said:
Is there? Post some pl.
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Generally not a good idea to post that footage here - but there is no shortage of incidents of it which can be found via a quick search and/or have covered in the news.

DrToffnar said:
They NEED to come up with a diplomatic solution. Zelensky will have to swallow the bitter, illegal pill that is seeding territory to Russia and Putin will have to accept that Zelensky will remain in power. Both parties have a vested interest in ending this early, but none more so then Ukraine. The killing has to stop. It's awful and disgusting, but NOTHING is worth the price of dead children.
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Putin has shown no interest in accepting any such thing - as per my post above it takes 2 (or more) parties to make these kind of settlements possible.
 
Rroff said:
It takes two sides to make what you are talking about a reality - you seem blind to the terms Russia has been bringing to the table and the level of untrustworthiness they are bringing with it. There has been no possibility of negotiating a peace deal which would have been at all good for Ukraine. For the first couple of weeks it was Russia's way or the highway.
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It's why I used the words negotiate and concessions...I know it's not good.
 
arknor said:
was anyone apologising ?
people like me were just pointing out even America bombed civilian air raid shelters, hospitals etc in wars too.

but with Russia ofcourse it's intended targets, where as America was merely accidents, accidents don't happen when it's an enemy.
I'm still yet to see any rescue operation footage from the bombed theatre
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That's rather vague. If you're going to accuse the Americans of being just as bad as the Russians then you could at least give some specific examples from recent history of them deliberately targeting people they believed to be innocent civilians.

Do you remember early on in this war how a Russian tank driver deliberately drove over and crushed a car being driven by an old man? That sort of callous gratuitous violence against civilians by Russians has characterised this war and previous conflicts they were involved in.

arknor said:
how come there's no ambulances or anything there? but now places are saying there's rescue operations under way?

Why don't they show images of the rescue like they did with the hospital that seemed to contain 1 woman?

it's incredibly hard to know what's absolute propaganda and what's actually true.

The first casualty of war is always the truth.

something makes me think if hundreds or thousands of people were really trapped there would be footage of the rescue by now, it's been about 4 days?
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Perhaps they cannot get ambulances and large numbers of rescuers close to it because the Russians would open fire on them. Digging people out from under a collapsed building is not straightforward in an unsecured area during a war where the enemy are still active and have a penchant for murdering civilians!

Why would the Ukrainians need to produce propaganda to show how bad the Russians are when the absurd Russian pretext for the war and the manner of their treacherous invasion clearly demonstrate that to any sane person?

Putin has been lying through his teeth about the Ukrainians for years and he started this war. Quit trying to make the Ukrainians morally equivalent to the Russians.
 
Amnesia said:
It's why I used the words negotiate and concessions...I know it's not good.
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How do you make any meaningful negotiation or concessions when the other party has indicated nothing but complete capitulation will suit them and shown complete untrustworthiness to the terms of any deal anyway?
 
Rroff said:
Generally not a good idea to post that footage here - but there is no shortage of incidents of it which can be found via a quick search and/or have covered in the news.
.
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Plenty of footage of civilians being hit. It’s a war. I haven’t seen any Russians saying … ‘there’s a civilians aim at them.’

We’ve been through the posts of we don’t do that, but they do. What about ary doesn’t count where we’ve hit … an embassy by accident, but they do everything on purpose.
A linkie of someone doing it on purpose- Targetting civilians rather than someone shooting back.
 
Amnesia said:
They've been doing that for the past week.
They don't need to march soldiers to their deaths since Ukraine doesn't really have a way of stopping the bombardment.

What some people here do not seem to grasp is that the sooner Zelensky can negotiate a peace deal the less concessions he will need to make.
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The issue is trust, or lack of. Concessions provide a reward and an incentive to Putin. He will fight to win concessions.

The issue with Russian artillery is that they don't move much. If you've not seen, some of the arms being provided is counter-battery systems.

Russia's approach is simple. A flat dead city is no opposition.
 
NickK said:
The issue is trust, or lack of. Concessions provide a reward and an incentive to Putin. He will fight to win concessions.

The issue with Russian artillery is that they don't move much. If you've not seen, some of the arms being provided is counter-battery systems.

Russia's approach is simple. A flat dead city is no opposition.
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The city might be rubble but Ukrainians will still be there fighting them over it, Putin wouldn't get his trophy of capturing the city either.

WW1 showed the limitations of artillery on an enemy that is dug in, they just hide and reappear.
 
Custor said:
Plenty of footage of civilians being hit. It’s a war. I haven’t seen any Russians saying … ‘there’s a civilians aim at them.’

We’ve been through the posts of we don’t do that, but they do. What about ary doesn’t count where we’ve hit … an embassy by accident, but they do everything on purpose.
A linkie of someone doing it on purpose- Targetting civilians rather than someone shooting back.
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Have you heard of google?

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...ssians-near-kyiv-ukraine-war-latest-sqhrbtdrb

There's another evidenced report of 10 people murdered buying essentials.

There is a captured soldier who survived russian soldiers trying to kill him after he refused to kill civilians and was helping one.

Indiscriminate shelling and bombing of nearly every building in certain cities.

No idea why people have their heads in the sand.
 
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