Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar
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you'd think the moderation team would deal with them.
Soldato
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How would these peace talks go however? I mean Putin is not going to swallow his pride and say ok folks lets call it a day and go home without something......
Why should Ukraine be forced to give up their land just to stop a war? shoe on the other foot if England decided to invade France anf after messing up the entire north part of the country said, annex off Normandy and we will call it a day, would that be acceptable to anyone? and hell lets even say we got away with it. *like Crimea* then a few years later we did exactly the same thing only this time we asked for Brittany and that region around Calais (sorry geography not my strong suit
)would anyone really trust England to stop there???
and then there is the small matter of rebuilding the Ukraine. Now I expect the whole of Europe to help out in that, hopefully the US too..... but it is a total waste of money if Putin or someone like him is just gonna do the same thing in a few years time, therefore Russia as a country needs to pay significantly - partly in reparations and partly by bringing a lot of the worst criminals to justice, if for no other reason other than to dissuade them from doing it again......... 2014 shows that giving an inch does not work.
Why when you talk about peace talks, and everything else tbh (don't join NATO!), is the onus always on the Ukrainian side to cede to Russia's demands? Where are the calls for immediate unconditional Russian withdrawal? Why are you asking Ukraine to stand down their military and accept the breakup of their country with good grace like the good little subservient people they are to their bigger neighbor? Because that's what Russia is asking when they 'negotiate'.
Zelensky has said he'd happily have sit down talks with Putin, so long as they withdraw back to the borders before the 'special operation'. Not even back to pre-2014 borders. He'd also said back in March that Nato membership wasn't needed. Hardly a big ask of Russia is it? They're getting what they wanted aren't they? Unless their aim is to keep that land...? Gosh, maybe this has nothing to do with NATO afterall. what a shock.
So, where are your calls for Russia to pull back so these peace talks we all want can realistically happen? Why the continued victim blaming? These silly Ukrainians getting all blown up because they won't do as they are told by the invader.
Before I said negotiating with someone who has a gun to your head isn't really negotiating and you said it was. That's a weird take. If someone had a gun to my head I'd write down whatever they wanted to hear, but in this particular case Ukraine has a gun too, under the table pointed at their balls.
So, I guess until Russia pulls back, somehow slaps that gun under the table away or Ukraine grind them down till they fold the stalemate will continue. But every death up to that point is NOT Ukraines fault. It's Russias. Unless you disagree? If so please enlighten us because everything you say, or don't say, would lead people to think you're in agreement with Russias actions.
Consigliere
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Ukraine and Russia won't back down...hoping Russia just says they 'won what they wanted' and this can end. 
Ukraine and Russia won't back down...hoping Russia just says they 'won what they wanted' and this can end.
It is increasingly difficult to see a way for this to end where it isn't because one side or the other can no longer sustain war.
One thing I find curious though is that so far Russia hasn't done a lot to aggravate the West, lots of words but little in the way of proxy attacks both militarily or cyber, etc. retaliation for Western support, etc. is almost non-existent other than occasional attempts at attacks on staging/training areas, etc. and mostly attempts to try and discourage it by talk of ramping up attacks against the Ukraine command/leadership structure. I really thought they'd have carried out more in the way of indirect retaliatory steps outside of Ukraine and more direct inside Ukraine by now.
It is Russias fault they are the invaders, Ukraine clearly are the vicitims here and I've never said different.
I can say Russia should pull back but what will that change ? it brings nothing to the discussion, I just try to have a realistic discussion and realistically Ukraine are not in a position to put a beat down on Russia.
This is what Zelenskys advisor is requesting to put an end to the war.
1,000 howitzers caliber 155 mm
300 MLRS
500 tanks
2,000 armored vehicles
1,000 drones
Ok he maybe overshooting a little expecting a little less but if you need anywhere near that much then you certainly are not winning right now.
You ask why should Ukraine cede any land.
Rightfully they shouldn't.
Rightfully every Ukrainian should have their homes rebuilt for them and compensated for all they have been through but this isn't going to happen unless Ukraine win this war and it doesn't look like they will.
I said this a while back that the longer the war goes on the more Putin will want as compensation and in this case it will be land.
There is a lot of propaganda going on and a lot of it doesn't add up, all the talk of victory after victory for Ukraine and how everything was going wrong for Russia and how they were on the back foot. Then why the longer the war goes on is Russia taking more territory?
Consigliere
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@Rroff Mm good point regarding attacks on the West. I was honestly, at first, quite worried and scared about the Russians suddenly mobolising and launching pre-emptive strikes plus invasions. I think we all were.
And now ,especially with so many eyes on the invasion through social media etc to scrutinise their equipment, it seems as though the 'sleeping beast' is actually far weaker than we all thought...minus the nukes.
And now ,especially with so many eyes on the invasion through social media etc to scrutinise their equipment, it seems as though the 'sleeping beast' is actually far weaker than we all thought...minus the nukes.
That's all you have? Troll.
Ukraine and Russia won't back down...hoping Russia just says they 'won what they wanted' and this can end.
The woods will soon be coming to Castle Dunce Inane - we are watching MacBeth (Russia)
No Putin will want land after comitting so much, unless Ukraine can win this war or at least drive Russia out then conceding land is something they must consider.
I'm not saying this is right but at some point Zelensky has to take a look at the toll it is taking on the Ukrainian people. It is Ukraine that is getting blown to bits, not Russia.
In your previous post to me you called me an idiot and in this post to me you call me a troll and you expect what a serious discussion from me ?
Soldato
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Well I am not the one fighting.... I am not sure how i would feel if it were me, it is possible if i didnt have a child i would feel different (ie i would be more likely to risk death myself for what is right but may be more likely to be bullied into submission if it were my kids life on the line).
What matters most is what the majority of the Ukrainian people want. if they want to risk fighting to the death for their freedom and independence then i think it is absolutely right that we should aid them in any way we can. I dont know what the Ukrainians want but seems from what I have seen - which may be biased i agree there - but it seems the Ukrainians generally want to fight to keep from being under the boot heal of Russia, even if it means risking death.
and it IS a boot heal............ christ Russian people are risking many many years of jail or perhaps worse for daring to speak out against the war. If that is not oppression what is?
IF it wasnt for the nukes then imo the right thing would be to end this war swiftly with the might of the whole of the west....................... But i dont think risking the whole planet is a price worth paying even for doing what is imo the "right" thing.
I will say 1 thing..... IF Russia did lose, and the current cabal were removed, I think it would be worth offering the Russian people and what ever new hopefully more reasonable government an almost complete pardon aside from those at the very top and those soldiors proven to have committed the worst of the war crimes, including avoiding serious cost reparations, on the condition that they give up the nuclear weapons.
I know it will never happen and it is just pie in the sky, but no one, not Russia, not the US, not NATO, not the UK or the middle east, no one should have weapons capable of ending the planet, and imo they should all be dismantled. Sadly it wont happen. Sooner or later there will be a nuclear war, it is inevitable and i just hope it is not in mine or my lads life time.
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And in your previous to that post you made mocking remarks "Lets all ask peter75 yadda yadda". You do this quite frequently to other posters too. If you can't rebuttal you resort to ad hominem style attacks. You reap what you sow.
Doesn't mean they are losing, right now at least. The reality is they have over 1000 miles of border Russia can attack from and 600+ miles of front line to deal with and without constant overwhelming crushing victories Russia can still just keep coming back whenever Ukraine's main forces move on from any one area - so they need a vast amount of equipment and man power to close the gate.
Right now Ukraine is largely in containment mode - squeezing Russia from the sides and trying to interdict Russian logistics while minimising losses keeping Russian forces held as much as possible in the middle - if they meet them hard at Severodonetsk for example Ukraine will just take massive losses to push Russia back while Russia can simply manoeuvre to keep the pressure on.
EDIT: Forgot one of the other points as well - Ukraine is somewhat hamstrung strategically as they can't really press home the advantage, when the opportunity arises, into Russian territory, etc. or pull Russian forces away by say assaults on the military infrastructure around Belgorod.
Which was the purpose of my posts this morning - to illustrate that point.
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*Asked on Potential Ukraine Visit of French President Macron, Government Spokeswoman Says “Several Options Are on the Table at the Moment”
*Russia’s NLMK Says Expects Steel Production to Fall by 15% in Russia in 2022
*Russian Oil Output Up 5% in First Half of June vs. May — IFAX Cites Source
Quite funny when you put it like that lol.
Yes and no its annoying to us as its meaningless it's probbaly making a lot of people in Russia think that maybe he's the wrong horse to back and that action against him isnt as likely to lead to consequence.
You're not the target of that propaganda, for you it's just entertainmet
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