Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

Amnesia · 15 Jul 2022 at 21:50

alchal said:
What goals ?

Pretty sure his goal was the capture/ killing of zelensky and his government and the total capture of the whole of Ukraine going on his very own words, oh and the total eradication of everything and anything Ukrainian...

Rroff said:
I think it fairly clear that the opening actions of this war was an attempt to install a puppet leadership in Kyiv - the opening events in the north were clearly intended to try and replicate 2014 with rapid light forces spearheaded by strikes, sabotage and assassination squads while trying to raise pro-Russian collaborators in the expectation that Ukraine would then largely put down their arms and fold.

Scougar said:
Dear god Rroff. What madness is this? LOGIC and REALITY. In General Discussion ?

So many months later and you all start to repeat what I said at the start of the war.....and the time nearly everyone disagreed with me.

25th Feb, one day after invasion

Amnesia said:
and why cant he just install a puppet government and get Ukraine to do what he wants ?

Amnesia said:
Maybe they are doing some scattered attacks to lul Ukraine into a false sense of security and then will take out the heads of Ukraine in the capitol.

26th Feb

Amnesia said:
They are already at the capital, once that goes down and Russia installs its own pro Russian puppet government then all this western support will stop.
The Ukraine people will be on their own, no hero leader, no army, no western support....pretty much forgotten about.

^^ The West did not expect Ukraine to hold as long as it did...they didnt expect sanctions to go on aslong as they have

Amnesia said:
Firstly I was not one of those who said Russia was going to take the whole country, I said at most he would take the capitol to install a puppet government but I have repeatedly said if Ukraine agree not to join NATO then that should be enough for peace.

But the more time that goes on and deeper Russia get into Ukraine then more concessions will have to be made.

Amnesia · 15 Jul 2022 at 21:53

ubersonic said:
Random note of interest: the Russian aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov and it's Chinese counterpart Liaoning were designed/built in Ukraine. The Liaoning was a partially completed carrier called the Varyag that Ukraine sold off after the fall of the USSR. The Kuznetsov, was originally named the Riga but then changed to the Leonid Brezhnev because Moscow didn't want it named after a Latvian city anymore as Latvia were getting fed up of Russian influence, but then changed to the Tbilisi because Moscow didn't want it named after a Ukrainian (former Soviet premier) anymore as Ukraine were getting fed up of Russian influence, then changed to it's current name because Moscow didn't want it named after a Georgian city anymore as Georgia were getting fed up of Russian influence.

I like this bit ^^

Amnesia · 15 Jul 2022 at 22:02

Minusorange said:
Still able to shoot down some of the missiles Russia launches, what strikes me is apparent waste of these missiles by Russian on what appears to have zero strategic value where the only purpose is just to terrorise people in the cities under attack, it certainly does feel like these attacks are born out of frustration at not being able to target anything of military significance

The Ukrainian soldiers are in the city where civilians are, even if they are not in the same building and are in a near by one then there is a chance that civilian buildings will be hit as a lot of the projectiles fired from Russia are not that precise.

Rroff · 15 Jul 2022 at 22:09

Amnesia said:
So many months later and you all start to repeat what I said at the start of the war.....and the time nearly everyone disagreed with me.

If you go back I was saying what I said in the post you are quoting there from the start (to some disagreement from some people).

Amnesia · 15 Jul 2022 at 22:11

Rroff said:
If you go back I was saying what I said in the post you are quoting there from the start (to some disagreement from some people).

It's why I said nearly everyone, I couldn't rememer if you agreed with me on that point but we were certainly in the minority.

Minusorange · 15 Jul 2022 at 22:13

Amnesia said:
The Ukrainian soldiers are in the city where civilians are, even if they are not in the same building and are in a near by one then there is a chance that civilian buildings will be hit as a lot of the projectiles fired from Russia are not that precise.

Why stop there, why not go full Russian doctrine and proclaim every Ukrainian is a soldier of Ukraine and a legit target

goldy6660 · 15 Jul 2022 at 22:18

A mate interviewed a Ukrainian today, really wanted to give the guy a job. Opening 2 mins we're fine, then he got our his vape and started vaping in then interview. The agency used to get him in the interview wanted too much money for the job but just a strange maybe cultural shock

Amnesia · 15 Jul 2022 at 22:19

Minusorange said:
Why stop there, why not go full Russian doctrine and proclaim every Ukrainian is a soldier of Ukraine and a legit target

You do not need to, there is a name for it.
collateral damage: injury inflicted on something other than an intended target specifically : civilian casualties of a military operation.

It was used a lot by the Americans during the Iraq war.

Minusorange · 15 Jul 2022 at 22:25

Amnesia said:
You do not need to, there is a name for it.
collateral damage: injury inflicted on something other than an intended target specifically : civilian casualties of a military operation.

It was used a lot by the Americans during the Iraq war.

It doesn't work the way you think it does to justify the Russian war crimes

Amnesia · 15 Jul 2022 at 22:32

Minusorange said:
It doesn't work the way you think it does to justify the Russian war crimes

Does using the term collateral damage justify the deaths of civilians killed by Americans ?

Grim5 · 15 Jul 2022 at 22:33

M270 big brother has arrived to keep HIMARS some company

https://twitter.com/x/status/1547965132000530434

Grim5 · 15 Jul 2022 at 22:35

It would be so swell if the PrSM 500km missiles were provided to use with the M270, the M270 and can carry and fire 4 of them at a time.

The PrSM missile can actually go even further than 500km which was achieved in testing last year but due to a treaty the USA signed, they will not deploy rockets or missiles that can travel more than 500km unless its a nuclear deterrent ICBM and so the PrSM missile is designed to destroy itself if has not yet reached the target at 500km

bingham67 · 15 Jul 2022 at 22:42

Minusorange said:
Minusorange said:

Still able to shoot down some of the missiles Russia launches, what strikes me is apparent waste of these missiles by Russian on what appears to have zero strategic value where the only purpose is just to terrorise people in the cities under attack, it certainly does feel like these attacks are born out of frustration at not being able to target anything of military significance

Click to expand...

Got to get there revenge for all them generals smoked so this is what they do.

Quartz · 15 Jul 2022 at 23:35

Minusorange said:
Ukraine war: British man Paul Urey held by separatists dies

British man Paul Urey, captured by Russian-backed separatists, has died in detention, reports say.

www.bbc.co.uk

At what point do we stop allowing Russians to commit these war crimes ?

Our deploying official troops would start WW3.

Scougar · 16 Jul 2022 at 01:04

Minusorange said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1548035317332000769

Still able to shoot down some of the missiles Russia launches, what strikes me is apparent waste of these missiles by Russian on what appears to have zero strategic value where the only purpose is just to terrorise people in the cities under attack, it certainly does feel like these attacks are born out of frustration at not being able to target anything of military significance

I largely suspect this is an ego/fear thing. "You may have Himars, but look what we can do. Don't you forget it!". Etc.

Grim5 · 16 Jul 2022 at 02:11

Scougar said:
I largely suspect this is an ego/fear thing. "You may have Himars, but look what we can do. Don't you forget it!". Etc.

Absolutely, this isn't new they did this exactly the same thing just a few weeks ago when Ukraine ambushed their troops and caused heavy losses in Severdonetsk.

In this war, everytime there has been an event where the Russian military has been hit hard and been embarrassed for the world to see, they have responded not on the battlefield, but by launching cruise missiles at civilian targets

Grim5 · 16 Jul 2022 at 02:19

Why HIMARS gets through Russian air defence

Rroff · 16 Jul 2022 at 02:31

Grim5 said:
Why HIMARS gets through Russian air defence

Good video but I suspect a lot comes down to the state of readiness of these systems and the setup of the system being optimised around dealing with combat aircraft and cruise missiles so a lot slower to be able to respond to stuff like HIMARS.

xxalxx · 16 Jul 2022 at 02:39

Grim5 said:
The PrSM missile can actually go even further than 500km which was achieved in testing last year but due to a treaty the USA signed, they will not deploy rockets or missiles that can travel more than 500km unless …..

They withdrew from that treaty under Trump, I did read yesterday that the US had removed the 500km limit but can’t remember where it was stated.

Grim5 · 16 Jul 2022 at 04:55

Rroff said:
Good video but I suspect a lot comes down to the state of readiness of these systems and the setup of the system being optimised around dealing with combat aircraft and cruise missiles so a lot slower to be able to respond to stuff like HIMARS.

That's exactly what the video said, the system can probably engage HIMARS rockets but because the HIMARS rocket looks almost exactly like a cheap grad rocket on radar, operators don't know when to engage and when to leave it and it could take many months to upgrade the system to accurately recognise HIMARS rockets - in the interim you don't want to be the Russian SAM operator who's just launched $10 million worth of anti air missiles to engage $10 thousand worth of grad rockets because you thought they were HIMARS

But even if the Russian do start accurately engaging HIMARS in the future, each HIMARS is still order of magnitude cheaper than any of the Russian anti air system missiles, you can afford to launch 20 HIMARS rockets and even if only 1 hits its target it's still a massive financial loss to the Russians - and even if zero hit the target it's still a financial loss, if the Russians want to start engaging every HIMARS rocket it still makes sense for Ukrainians to launch as many as possible and have them wipe out their stockpiles and bank accounts.

Therefore the Russian's focus should be to find and destroy the HIMARS launcher not intercept the rockets, it's a financial money pit trying to engage the rockets as long as the U.S is going to keep sending more. And I don't think the Russians are stupid, they probably already know what I just explained - that using advanced missiles to intercept barrages of rockets makes no sense, it's just too bloody expensive and that's why their Anti air SAM systems like BUK, Pantsir and S300/400 are not programmed to recognise and engage cheap rockets or artillery shells.