Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

[redeye]

So you don't want to counter any of it ? oh wait you can't as even western maps now show how much control Russia has and that is a video showing Ukrainians surrendering.

The silly thing is, early on Ukraines soldiers released a lot of videos of them beating up Russian soldiers who had surrendered, there were reports of them castrating Russian soldiers.
Now how many Russian soldiers will want to surrender after watching those videos or reading those reports.
Yet look at how the Ukrainian soldiers are getting treated when they surrender.

It was a stupid move on Ukraines part and now Ukrainian soldiers will be much more willing to surrender than Russians. Even those Azov who claimed they would fight to the death have surrendered.

Nobody is denying that Russia has been significant advances in Donesk and Luhansk. They are putting all of their effort into it so it would be a huge suprise that they don't make gains there. Ukraine have done extremely well to hang on in there as long as they have in that region. Their progress has now however stalled (according to all latest reports) thanks to the latest weapons deliveries from France, US and Norway. Lets see how things change over the coming weeks.

Russia has lost a huge number of men, tanks and aircraft in this endeavor. Lets remember, Russia started this, Russia is responsible for thousands of documented war crimes in Ukraine. It hit schools, hospitals and civilian infrastructure on a daily basis because either it's weapons are so out of date or deliberately to scare the population and turn it against the government. Either way, it's horrific and none of this should ever have happened.


"there were reports of them castrating Russian soldiers." - Not confirmed by anyone.

"Yet look at how the Ukrainian soldiers are getting treated when they surrender." - depending where they are captured and where they are transported to. The Azov fighters who surrendered in Mariupol - reports many of them have been dissappeared off to Russia, some have been told they'll face trial in the "People's Republic's" and large numbers of Russian lawmakers and leaders of the "Republics" have demanded the death penalty. That was not the agreement made with Putin. So Russia doesn't keep it's word (suprise suprise), which is why Ukraine is now being a lot more careful not to have soliders cut off.

 

[diamount]

Kremlin crony Amensia still at it, I see.

 

[Jester*]

proxy war
noun
noun: proxy war; plural noun: proxy wars

1. a war instigated by a major power which does not itself become involved.

you know that your quote proves you wrong... the war was not instigated by nato, it was instigated by Russia

That very quote can also be interpreted the following way.

Russia instigated the invasion of Ukraine, Russia is considered a major power. So proxy war by that definition cannot be used as Russia is a major power, Russia is directly involved.

 

[Tuppy_Glossop]

Whatever happened to defending the right to hold and voice different opinions? Can't anybody respectfully disagree these days?

 

[Pipe & Slippers]

No - this is GD not SC

 

[Washout]

Whatever happened to defending the right to hold and voice different opinions? Can't anybody respectfully disagree these days?

Absolutely. You're free to hold whatever opinion you like. As you yourself say, people can disagree with it though.

 

[Shamikebab]

Whatever happened to defending the right to hold and voice different opinions? Can't anybody respectfully disagree these days?

Respect is earned. As soon as you start trolling, strawmanning and other disingenuous tactics are used then you get everything you deserve.

 

[potatolord]

As effective as any other jet they have flying, so better than nothing. It's not like other jets Ukraine have are some magic machines not affected by anti air missiles

I'm not sure if they'd want to use the Gatling gun but it can equip missiles and perhaps the American missiles it can fire is worth it even if the plane it's attached to isn't as good? The A10's Gatling gun fires 30mm depleted uranium rounds, they leave radiation in the ground where they land which would hamper efforts to use farm land once the war is over

Jeez, I never realised those A10 shells were that big!

 

[kylew_is_back]

It's not a proxy war. Russia are directly involved. This is why the look weak.

It is not a proxy war but neither a war, it is a special military operation with the aim of liberate the south-east ukraine and weakening europe economically. And the plan is working exactly as intended for the Motherland.

 

[HungryHippos]

I mean they can call it what they want but it's a war. Looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, is a duck.

 

[Minstadave]

It is not a proxy war but neither a war, it is a special military operation with the aim of liberate the south-east ukraine and weakening europe economically. And the plan is working exactly as intended for the Motherland.

I thought this was sarcastic for a while but I think it's probably just deluded.

 

[bingham67]

Russia reports nearly 40% rise in bankruptcy in first half of 2022

Russia's foreign minister said Moscow's objectives in Ukraine now extend beyond the eastern Donbas region into the south, warning it "cannot allow" Ukraine to have weapons that threaten Russia or its territories. Follow here for live news updates.

edition.cnn.com

Ukrainian military claims another six Russian ammunition sites in Kherson were struck

Russia's foreign minister said Moscow's objectives in Ukraine now extend beyond the eastern Donbas region into the south, warning it "cannot allow" Ukraine to have weapons that threaten Russia or its territories. Follow here for live news updates.

edition.cnn.com

 

[Amnesia]

It's not a proxy war. Russia are directly involved. This is why the look weak.

proxy war
noun
noun: proxy war; plural noun: proxy wars

1. a war instigated by a major power which does not itself become involved.

you know that your quote proves you wrong... the war was not instigated by nato, it was instigated by Russia

yeah they didn't instigate it, russia attacked ukraine. ofc nato are involved not one is saying they arent, but they didnt start the war

That very quote can also be interpreted the following way.

Russia instigated the invasion of Ukraine, Russia is considered a major power. So proxy war by that definition cannot be used as Russia is a major power, Russia is directly involved.

Why are you all hung up on the instigation part?

Look at the word proxy, a proxy for example is someone who you chose to act on your behalf, like a buffer between you and the objective.
A proxy war is the same thing where you do not engage directly but are supporting/directing another. So in this situation Ukraine is the proxy for USA/NATO.


This is the Oxford reference, I have added some bold text to help clarify.

proxy war​

Proxy wars are conflicts in which a third party(USA/NATO) intervenes indirectly in a pre-existing war(between Ukraine & Russia) in order to influence the strategic outcome in favour of its preferred faction. Proxy wars are the product of a relationship between a benefactor who is a state or non-state actor external to the dynamic of the existing conflict (for example, a civil war) and the chosen proxies who are the conduit for the benefactor’s weapons, training, and funding. In short, proxy wars are the replacement for states and non-state actors seeking to further their own strategic goals yet at the same time avoid engaging in direct, costly, and bloody warfare.

Yes the previous definition was also correct but some of you are hung up on one word which isn't necessary.

Russia Is Right: The U.S. Is Waging a Proxy War in Ukraine​

The war in Ukraine isn’t just a conflict between Moscow and Kyiv, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov recently declared. It is a “proxy war” in which the world’s most powerful military alliance, the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, is using Ukraine as a battering ram against the Russian state.

Lavrov is one of the most reliable mouthpieces for President Vladimir Putin’s baseless propaganda, but in this case he’s not wrong. Russia is the target of one of the most ruthlessly effectively proxy wars in modern history. And the less U.S. officials say about it, the better.

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/a...-putin-s-right-that-u-s-is-waging-a-proxy-war

 

[alchal]

So you don't want to counter any of it ? oh wait you can't as even western maps now show how much control Russia has and that is a video showing Ukrainians surrendering.

The silly thing is, early on Ukraines soldiers released a lot of videos of them beating up Russian soldiers who had surrendered, there were reports of them castrating Russian soldiers.
Now how many Russian soldiers will want to surrender after watching those videos or reading those reports.
Yet look at how the Ukrainian soldiers are getting treated when they surrender.

It was a stupid move on Ukraines part and now Ukrainian soldiers will be much more willing to surrender than Russians. Even those Azov who claimed they would fight to the death have surrendered.

Counter it?

NATO has gifted Ukraine a few artillery pieces and apc's/ anti tank and small arms and they have stalled at minimum the mighty russian military as a result..

NATO is laughing it's arse of at the state of the Russian military, it's weak, very weak.

Ukraine....have managed to hold of one of the most feared militaries ( up to the point of invasion !) In the world, and humiliated them.

What about the British prisoners being sentenced to death???

are you absolutely sure? not involved in any way? Has Nato not been expanding east last 25 years?

NATO expanding had got what to do with this conflict? Unless you are Putin and use it as a BS excuse for war.

Those nations chose to join because of thier past history of being on the receiving end of Russian occupation.

 

[The Funktopus]

I thought this was sarcastic for a while but I think it's probably just deluded.

Loosing battles, suffering massive losses in both men and equipment, having to hurriedly transfer forces across the width of Russia, mobilise decades old obsolete equipment and aged reservists, and then still having an opponent you vastly outnumber by every conceivable metric fight you to an exhausted standstill is all part of the plan, apparently.

 

[alchal]

Whatever happened to defending the right to hold and voice different opinions? Can't anybody respectfully disagree these days?

Amnesia making an alt account to stick up for themselve I see.

 

[Amnesia]

There you go AGAIN, taking something someone said and twisting it so you can jump in and have your made up argument. Where did they or anyone say the city hadn’t fallen?? Wow, 3 links to counter a point that wasn’t made and everyone already knows. Well done, gold star.

Nothing has been twisted, he said I post rubbish with no evidence. I posted some evidence to back up my post and some people including yourself got hurt as their Twitter feed normally shields them from truths like this.

I have highlighted the relevant text in his post but I get the feeling you will once again miss it and rant about something else ?

Why try and counter it, as you prove time and time again once you get countered with evidence you ignore it(or going by your forum name you forget it) , Once again you post ***** with no evidence to back it up

I know some of you guys do not like it but Severodonetsk has fallen and a week later Lysychansk was taken. Admitting to these realities does not make you a Putin supporter, not wanting to be part of the propaganda does not mean you want to see dead Ukrainians.

Far too many of the regulars here have the mentality that you are either all in and must go along with all propaganda no matter how unrealistic or you are a Russian shill.
It should never be seen as wrong to call out the lies from both sides.

 

[Washout]

Why are you all hung up on the instigation part?

...

Because it came from the quote you provided over the definition of a proxy war which directly countered your own point.

Its all semantics anyway. Are Nato countries helping Ukraine with weapon supplies? Obviously. Are they in a proxy war? Meh. Were the US in a proxy war with Germany because they supplied the UK with weapons during the early days of ww2? Some would say yes, others no. It's not like they're giving Ukraine cruise missiles or 5th gen fighters to raze Moscow. They're supplying them with just enough to hopefully defeat an invading army so they can re-establish their internationally recognized territorial borders.

 

[Amnesia]

Amnesia making an alt account to stick up for themselve I see.

That's not the first time accusations like that have been made, one was made just a week or so ago.
Some may even think your account is an alt as your posts make it look as if I am arguing with children.

 

[Amnesia]

Because it came from the quote you provided over the definition of a proxy war

So what, just because one word was used in the definition it does not mean the definition revolves around that word.