Dover Ferry Queues

Freakbro said:
He certainly can have that dowiesque pedantic detail focussing on literal meanings of isolated words, but he's nothing like dowie in the type of baiting posts/threads he makes, in that dowie is still the biggest master baiter of the forums.
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Excellent choice of words there. 10/10.
 
Murphy said:
Erm, no. I added Le Harve or any other port because the post i replied to only mentioned people but i knew someone would say Ah but what about cars and I'd have to make another post explaining how the same principal applies to cars and then there'd be a silly game of no true Scotsman and trying to prove a negative, exactly what we now seem to be engaged in.

Perhaps next time you should credit someone with the intelligence to not need something made clearer until after you've established whether something was not clear to them in the first place, because otherwise people may suspect you're doing so because your intention was to misrepresent what someone said, like i did.

1. Yes.
2. Yes.
3. No, i was being factitious. I said "You mean like planes queue up to unload at airports across the world...Oh wait." as in planes don't queue to disembark passages (unless there's extraordinary delays) so suggesting ferries would be different was absurd.
4. Yes. However like I've pointed out the post i responded to specifically said people, not car, not lorries, not trains or tuk tuks or anything other thing that gets transported from point A to B. If you don't think Bug One's point was deserving of mockery then i can only assume you've not had any experience of conversing with them.
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I see. I must have misread the facetiousness. I'm still not entirely convinced that what I've said is irrelevant, but I wont press the point further as I seem to have offended you; I was engaging because it seemed to me a salient detail (re: logistics) had been missed, but that doesn't imply I was questioning your intelligence, nor did I mean to.
Had I spotted the fact you were being facetious I probably wouldn't have replied at all.
Murphy said:
I suspect you know that request can't be meet because you know as well as i do that the Dover straights is one of the busiest shipping lanes in the world, however like i said just because it's busy it doesn't change the technicalities, all it does is change the scale. All it changes is instead of needing one or two border officials, posts, docks, car parks or whatever you just need more, you just need 10, 20 or more of those things.
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When I posted it, absolutely not, like I said it was a genuine request for some examples. But on re-reading it, yes, I can see that it may have seemed like asking you for the impossible. That wasn't the intention.
Murphy said:
If they didn't process people, cars, lorries, vans, trains (do i really need to list ever possible way to cross a border every time?) quickly enough to prevent a backlog long enough to prevent ferries, trains, planes or whatever from operating then the companies would, i assume, kick up a stink and possibly take legal action because they have both a political and financial clout that's simply not available to a typical person.

In extreme cases yes there would but as expect people would follow that trail forward to what's causing it, just like people do if they have to wait for too long at a checkout and are intelligent enough to understand that there's not enough cashiers or whatever. The blame would squarely be on whatever the actual cause is rather than what we've seen in the last few days of passing the blame parcel and no one being quiet sure who is actually to blame and by extension who needs to be doing better.
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I suppose so. I guess my point was, that as things stand, and in context of the current infrastructure, the juxtaposed border seems sensible to me. There's no doubt things could change so that a traditional border could be implemented and deal with the logistical problems if they occur, but I guess that's how we differ - I just don't really see what difference it makes whether the issue occurs in Dover or Calais.

Regardless thanks for responding. I hope you can see that I wasn't intending to be adversarial, so I appreciate you replying in kind.
 
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Murphy said:
All it changes is instead of needing one or two border officials, posts, docks, car parks or whatever you just need more, you just need 10, 20 or more of those things.
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Or, maybe instead of pulling a number our of your arse, we could settle on the 12 that are already there.

In all your madness, you seem to have forgotten your own argument that the French should manage their border on their own soil, and we should manage ours our side, after you've disembarked in your car from a ferry.

In most discussions myself and many of the other posters in this thread are usually in disagreement. So I'd like to congratulate you on bringing us all together, in what appears to be a mostly shared opinion, to inform you that that is a much worse system, and can only have been formed by a complete ignorance of the existing arrangements.
 
Bug One said:
The more time it takes, the longer you know the reply is going to be. :cry:
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He'll leave it a bit longer in the hope that you've forgotten what you've posted and he can spin his argument around to make the same points you originally made whilst also claiming you were wrong and he was right all along.

Although, from what I remember, Dowie was much better at this and could pivot his arguments via single paragraph posts without the need for an essay each time.
 
Does anyone actually read the walls of text though? I just imagine them sat at the computer turning more and more purple.
 
dLockers said:
God I never realised Murphy was a low key Dowie.
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I know this isn't SC so inteligent debate is above some people but at least try to play the ball rather than the man, if you're not smart enough to come up with a reason why you disagree then maybe it's best to keep your opinions to yourself.
Conscript said:
I see. I must have misread the facetiousness. I'm still not entirely convinced that what I've said is irrelevant, but I wont press the point further as I seem to have offended you; I was engaging because it seemed to me a salient detail (re: logistics) had been missed, but that doesn't imply I was questioning your intelligence, nor did I mean to.
Had I spotted the fact you were being facetious I probably wouldn't have replied at all.

When I posted it, absolutely not, like I said it was a genuine request for some examples. But on re-reading it, yes, I can see that it may have seemed like asking you for the impossible. That wasn't the intention.

I suppose so. I guess my point was, that as things stand, and in context of the current infrastructure, the juxtaposed border seems sensible to me. There's no doubt things could change so that a traditional border could be implemented and deal with the logistical problems if they occur, but I guess that's how we differ - I just don't really see what difference it makes whether the issue occurs in Dover or Calais.

Regardless thanks for responding. I hope you can see that I wasn't intending to be adversarial, so I appreciate you replying in kind.
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You haven't offended me it's just when answering certain posters i typically expect nonsensical responses so don't try to engage them in reasonable discussions because, as you can see from the posts after our conversation, the usual suspect jump on the bandwagon to throw insults at whoever posted something that makes them feel stupid.

The juxtaposed border only really worked, and i use that term loosely, when we were an member of the EU and relations with France were better. Since leaving relations have cooled significantly IMO and it's no longer workable, we wanted control of our borders but when it comes to actually following through with that it seems we're still happy to outsource the responsibility of that to other countries, you think people would be apoplectic that French border officials are not only working at a UK border but deciding who can and can't get on a ferry but it seems they're perfectly happy for the French to dictate who can or can't leave the UK at the port of Dover.
Bug One said:
Or, maybe instead of pulling a number our of your arse, we could settle on the 12 that are already there.

In all your madness, you seem to have forgotten your own argument that the French should manage their border on their own soil, and we should manage ours our side, after you've disembarked in your car from a ferry.

In most discussions myself and many of the other posters in this thread are usually in disagreement. So I'd like to congratulate you on bringing us all together, in what appears to be a mostly shared opinion, to inform you that that is a much worse system, and can only have been formed by a complete ignorance of the existing arrangements.
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Seriously, what part of what i said made you think i was actually using real numbers, it was an example. :rolleyes:

Again the only reason you think I've forgotten is because you seem to be struggling so much when it comes to the written language, is it that you're dyslexic or something?

Also: argumentum ad populum? That's your answer. :cry:
Bug One said:
What I'm lacking is the desire to waste a Saturday morning arguing with a braggart more interested in pile-driving their opinion than actually being right.
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Apparently not lacking enough desire to pipe-up yet again to demonstrate how terrible you are when it come to reading and understanding what someone said.
 
chroniclard said:
So, people stuck in 6 hour+ queues to get on a ferry to France. I dont understand where the delay is and "our side" appear to be blaming the French.
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Well, the delay is people trying to get into France ergo it's French passport control (and their lack of staffing) that would appear to be to blame.
 
Uther said:
Does anyone actually read the walls of text though? I just imagine them sat at the computer turning more and more purple.
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I did. I thought I was making a fair point when I posted last night, so I was mortified when I saw a reply this morning hinting that I'm an idiot who can't read who was trying to misrepresent someone.
So I put the time in to clarify, follow-up and make sure I'd followed the discussion closely. I like to think that I post on here in the same way as I would have a discussion face-to-face, I don't see why online interactions almost inevitably end up with so much condescension and barbed replies.

Evidently I should get out more. Not to Dover, though.
 
dowie said:
Well, the delay is people trying to get into France ergo it's French passport control (and their lack of staffing) that would appear to be to blame.
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That seems to be partly to blame yes. I was unaware of the French passport controls being this side. Have not used a ferry for a long time. :)
 
Murphy said:
I know this isn't SC so inteligent debate is above some people but at least try to play the ball rather than the man, if you're not smart enough to come up with a reason why you disagree then maybe it's best to keep your opinions to yourself.
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Murphy said:
Again the only reason you think I've forgotten is because you seem to be struggling so much when it comes to the written language, is it that you're dyslexic or something?

Apparently not lacking enough desire to pipe-up yet again to demonstrate how terrible you are when it come to reading and understanding what someone said.
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You're welcome to your opinion. It's formed from a position of ignorance though. Have you even been through Dover?
 
I would have thought those French who rely on British holiday makers for a large proportion of their living would want to pressure the French government to sort this out? Or are they so securely entrenched that government hatred of the English usurps monetary considerations of the voters dependent on our holiday makers?

I have only been to France the once, with my late parents. My father drove from Cheshire to Dover or wherever the hovercraft went from in the seventies, we arrived in France, drove none stop to Paris, where my father practised his terrible French on some pedestrian. Immediately got called an English pig, a fight nearly ensued, and muttering constantly about how he wished we'd never liberated them, drove us straight back to England. A memorable day <LOL>. It was a brand new car, picked up the day we left for France, and two days later it was back at the supplying dealership for its first service, which somewhat shocked them.
 
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