Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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woppy101 said:
They did and there is no doubt that it should be in Ukrainian control and part of Ukraine. But,
My next statement is what I believe will be argued by Russia at peace talks but is in no way what I think should happen(I don’t want anyone to think I’m coming down on the Russian side) When peace talks start Russia will argue that they annexed the Crimea it in 2014 at its request and Ukraine did nothing(yes I know it’s ********), they then held a referendum(rigged) and the population voted to join Russia(********) and Ukraine did nothing. I believe pressure will be put on Ukraine from the EU if Russia is at the table and offering to pull out to pre feb2022 borders but keep Crimea.
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Leaving the Crimea in russian hands does leave Ukraine in a vulnerable position, makes it very easy to blockade Ukraine's eastern coastline, as well as being a path deep into the country - we know russia intended to take the whole coastline.

And does accepting it's occupation legitamise the Russian position - it would diminish Ukraines claim.
 
HungryHippos said:
They can argue they annexed and held illegal referendums all they want, but I don't believe Ukraine has ever officially given it away.

They might have had a chance to officially annex it at the start of this conflict by talking/diplomacy instead of invading, perhaps control of Crimea could have been ceded for more concrete assurances and Ukraine joining a defensive pact such as NATO or even the EU.
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I_M_Weasel said:
Leaving the Crimea in russian hands does leave Ukraine in a vulnerable position, makes it very easy to blockade Ukraine's eastern coastline, as well as being a path deep into the country - we know russia intended to take the whole coastline.

And does accepting it's occupation legitamise the Russian position - it would diminish Ukraines claim.
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Listen I’m not disagreeing with you both, all I’m saying is if by some miracle Russia came to the table(say a regime change) and said “we will pull out from everywhere we invaded, pay reparations to rebuild and allow UN peacekeepers, BUT we get to keep Crimea, there would be massive pressure put on Ukraine from the coalition to accept those terms.
TBH it’s probably a mute point as Russia is to arrogant to admit it was wrong.
 
woppy101 said:
Listen I’m not disagreeing with you both, all I’m saying is if by some miracle Russia came to the table(say a regime change) and said “we will pull out from everywhere we invaded, pay reparations to rebuild and allow UN peacekeepers, BUT we get to keep Crimea, there would be massive pressure put on Ukraine from the coalition to accept those terms.
TBH it’s probably a mute point as Russia is to arrogant to admit it was wrong.
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I do agree, I think Ukraine might have to accept something like that as the price of peace -It would just concern me that it sets them up for future pain.
 
woppy101 said:
Listen I’m not disagreeing with you both, all I’m saying is if by some miracle Russia came to the table(say a regime change) and said “we will pull out from everywhere we invaded, pay reparations to rebuild and allow UN peacekeepers, BUT we get to keep Crimea, there would be massive pressure put on Ukraine from the coalition to accept those terms.
TBH it’s probably a mute point as Russia is to arrogant to admit it was wrong.
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As shown in the past, you can give people weapons but if they have no will to fight then they will fold.

Ukraine has made the choice to fight, it should not and I believe will not be the coalitions position to force a decision on Ukraine's behalf.

Ukraine understandably wants all its land back and we should support whatever decision they make going forward.
 
Firestar_3x said:
As shown in the past, you can give people weapons but if they have no will to fight then they will fold.

Ukraine has made the choice to fight, it should not and I believe will not be the coalitions position to force a decision on Ukraine's behalf.

Ukraine understandably wants all its land back and we should support whatever decision they make going forward.
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I absolutely do agree, but I think all avenues will be explored if peace is on the line, especially if by some miracle Russia comes to the table.
 
I could see it coming down to the facts on the ground in some ways... If Ukraine continues to have successful offensives and ends up driving Russia out of Crimea relatively quickly then that'll be a domestic win for them, and allies won't have long enough to hand-wring about it. However if a battle for Crimea turns into a slow slugging match then I could see Western allies wanting Ukraine to just leave it be and agree terms, while domestic sentiment would probably be to continue trying to take it back, which would be an awkward situation...
 
I wonder what the chances are that GRU officers get tired of being shamed like this and go after the FSB?

The fact that Girkin is still openly breaking their laws and there are politicians crying that Ukraine hasn't been flattened enough makes me think that GRU is making a play against Putin, it also makes me think that Putin knows this and has held off on mobilisation because it would immediately hand vast power over to GRU. Another thought is that Putin wanted this war partly as a means to clear out his internal opposition that has been growing restless with the ultra-nationalist, jingoist rhetoric not turning into action for 8 years.
 
StriderX said:
I wonder what the chances are that GRU officers get tired of being shamed like this and go after the FSB?

The fact that Girkin is still openly breaking their laws and there are politicians crying that Ukraine hasn't been flattened enough makes me think that GRU is making a play against Putin, it also makes me think that Putin knows this and has held off on mobilisation because it would immediately hand vast power over to GRU. Another thought is that Putin wanted this war partly as a means to clear out his internal opposition that has been growing restless with the ultra-nationalist, jingoist rhetoric not turning into action for 8 years.
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You could be on to something there TBH
 
CaptainRAVE said:
The more I read the more it sounds like the Russian forces have massively collapsed. Ukraine can’t reclaim the ground fast enough. God you love to see it.

Rumours even Donetsk airport has been recaptured.
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Absolutely great news if true, there are reports of Russian units now turning tail and running before even being engaged, maybe one last historic event to come
 
I_M_Weasel said:
It's not everywhere though - progress in kherson seems very slow.
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I think this is deliberate.

You don't really want street to street fighting, better to persuade the Russian troops to leave (if they can) or surrender.

The noose on Kherson is slowly being tightened whilst the news of the collapse in the north sets in, those in Kherson will hear of it and be thinking how to get out rather than how to hold it.
 
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