2022 mini-budget discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.
thenewoc said:
So why is it we don't have factories full of unskilled workers churning out widgets at a competitive price to China? The answer is our unskilled labour is too expensive!
Click to expand...
Wages have effectively gone nowhere in twelve years so it's absolute nonsense that they are driving inflation.

You can talk as much as you want but you may as well blame unicorns for not producing enough dung to fertilise the fields as a reason to why there aren't enough potatoes.
 
thenewoc said:
I didn't ask them to go to war and I don't see that our mini budget has anything to do with us proposing to do so either.
Click to expand...
Because you said...
thenewoc said:
Radical times need radical solutions.
Click to expand...
To which i replied...
Murphy said:
Said every German in 1933.
Click to expand...
Because if you knew the slightest thing about history or even watched one of the many TV programs on the subject (like the excellent Hitler: The Lost Tapes on CH4, Saturday, 8PM) you'd know that Hitler came to power because the German people thought exactly as you do, that radical times need radical solutions. That a demagogue playing to populist opinion, promising the earth, would fix all their problems. It's a tale as old as the hills and it always ends badly
 
thenewoc said:
Yes because if you can keep businesses going then you keep many of the jobs going too. Retrenchment that happens in a recession would be bad for jobs and draw out a slower recovery IMO.
Click to expand...

As per usual, you're simply saying random stuff with absolutely no understanding whatsoever of even the basics of what you're discussing.

thedecisionlab.com

Dunning–Kruger Effect - The Decision Lab

Dunning–Kruger Effect explains why the least competent at a task often incorrectly rate themselves as high-performers because they do not know otherwise.
thedecisionlab.com thedecisionlab.com

The Dunning-Kruger effect effect occurs when a person's lack of knowledge and skills in a certain area cause them to overestimate their own competence. By contrast, this effect also causes those who excel in a given area to think the task is simple for everyone, and underestimate their relative abilities as well.
Click to expand...

It's like you're still stuck in the gullible "nobody wants to listen to experts" nonsense of 2016.

How can you possibly still be doubling down given that we've had such a monumental economic decline relative to our European neighbours since then; with the UK's GDP per capita having grown only 10% versus 24% for France and 18% for Germany, when prior to 2016 we had the fastest growth in the G7?

You understand that that relative decline in growth per capita translates to a huge relative decline in living standards versus our European neighbours right?

Seriously, this just blows my mind; you've consistently gone against expert analysis on absolutely everything, and you've ended up being wrong every single time, as the data now clearly demonstrates.

At what point are you going to snap back to reality, sit up and think that maybe, just maybe, those experts who turned out to be right every single time, might just be right this time too?
 
Last edited:
StriderX said:
You will not enjoy such a unequal society, I guarantee it.
Click to expand...

No one is forcing anyone to languish in an unskilled job. The individual is responsible for self improvement. If they prefer to work in an unskilled job, that's fine but then those individuals need to be realistic about what they can afford rather than being duped by advertising that they can live like the Beckham's for instance.
 
Murphy said:
Because you said...

To which i replied...

Because if you knew the slightest thing about history or even watched one of the many TV programs on the subject (like the excellent Hitler: The Lost Tapes on CH4, Saturday, 8PM) you'd know that Hitler came to power because the German people thought exactly as you do, that radical times need radical solutions. That a demagogue playing to populist opinion, promising the earth, would fix all their problems. It's a tale as old as the hills and it always ends badly
Click to expand...

And yet it is usually Labour making the unobtainable promises in the run up to each election because they know it's the only way they can gain some votes from the easily deluded.
 
Murphy said:
We've basically got a reverse of the last 10+ years. When interest rates were low the BoE was trying to inject money into the economy and the government were trying to take it out with their austerity BS, now the BoE is trying to take money out of the economy and the government are trying to inject money into it.

Basically our government and central bank have been at war for more than a decade and the only casualties will be us, before this is was public services in the line of fire now it's anyone with debts.
Click to expand...

BUT that is only becuase the Govt sets the BoE remit which was to keep inflation at around 2%. The Govt could have stopped any interference by the BoE over the last 10 years by giving them a different remit. Same today. The Govt could tell the BoE to keep inflation around 11% and then the BoE wouldnt put up interest rates at the next meetingggg
 
thenewoc said:
IR35 has everything to do with it if you get businesses sourcing skilled individuals domestically rather than trying to import them. Much more likely to be spending in the local economy then sending funds back to some other country.
Click to expand...

Please explain how you got from A to B here.
 
thenewoc said:
No one is forcing anyone to languish in an unskilled job. The individual is responsible for self improvement. If they prefer to work in an unskilled job, that's fine but then those individuals need to be realistic about what they can afford rather than being duped by advertising that they can live like the Beckham's for instance.
Click to expand...
Then who does the unskilled jobs then?
 
StriderX said:
Then who does the unskilled jobs then?
Click to expand...

The unskilled of course. There will always be poor achievers who don't want to apply themselves at school or in life beyond education. It is only right that if you don't have the skills you should only be paid an unskilled salary since you don't have the necessary acumen to do a job higher up or start your own business etc. You are basically being employed on the back of someone else's knowledge to instruct you in how to do that job and have very little thinking to do to carry out that job.
 
thenewoc said:
And yet it is usually Labour making the unobtainable promises in the run up to each election because they know it's the only way they can gain some votes from the easily deluded.
Click to expand...
Not only does that have no bearing whatsoever on what was being discussed but you've just totally destroyed your previous argument, you said "Radical times need radical solutions." but now you're saying the above so what is it? Is it someone making unobtainable promises to sway the easily deluded or is it radical solutions?
Greebo said:
BUT that is only becuase the Govt sets the BoE remit which was to keep inflation at around 2%. The Govt could have stopped any interference by the BoE over the last 10 years by giving them a different remit. Same today. The Govt could tell the BoE to keep inflation around 11% and then the BoE wouldnt put up interest rates at the next meetingggg
Click to expand...
True but there's good reasons why you want to have have reasonable inflation targets and not 11%, reasons that everyone agrees upon because they're pretty blooming obvious.
 
Last edited:
thenewoc said:
So why is it we don't have factories full of unskilled workers churning out widgets at a competitive price to China? The answer is our unskilled labour is too expensive!
Click to expand...
It is which is why we shouldnt try to compete. years ago i worked for an UK engineering company. there was a particular item which we used 6 of to fit to our tankers we built which there were 3 UK companies who made them and charged around £70 each. They were labour instensfy to make. We sourced a factory in China who made them or us and shipped them to us at £14 each by boat or £22 each by express airfreight. A saving of at least £288 per tanker we built.

In order for the UK factories to compete then wages would have to be less than £1 per hour in the UK. Good luck with that.

In fact that is exactly why Dyson supported Brexit as he said in order for him to bring factories back to the UK and be viable then there needs to be no minimum wage and he can pay between £3 and £4 per hour for employees who will be so desperate for a job they will do that.
 
Last edited:
Murphy said:
Not only does that have no bearing whatsoever on what was being discussed but you've just totally destroyed your previous argument, you said "Radical times need radical solutions." but now you're saying the above so what is it? Is it someone making unobtainable promises to sway the easily deluded or is it radical solutions?
Click to expand...

The conservatives aren't making mini budget changes as part of electioneering though! The conservatives are delivering their mini budget, Labour are not delivering any of the unicorns that they've promised in any of their election manifestos for as long as I can remember.
 
thenewoc said:
The unskilled of course. There will always be poor achievers who don't want to apply themselves at school or in life beyond education. It is only right that if you don't have the skills you should only be paid an unskilled salary since you don't have the necessary acumen to do a job higher up or start your own business etc. You are basically being employed on the back of someone else's knowledge to instruct you in how to do that job and have very little thinking to do to carry out that job.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you'd love work camps for these people
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom