2022 mini-budget discussion

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Greebo said:
As proven with the minimum wage, payrises arent that inflationary unless you have some niche companies with a highly labour intensive product.

We are in construction. Wages are about 13% of our turnover. So if we give them all a generous 10% payrise , we would only have to increase our rates by 1.3%. Yet the increase in fuel/not being able to use red diesel has been a bigger factor in our increased charge out rates than wages has this year.

Yes payrises do contribute to the sellout price but compared with inflation its peanuts.

Plus you have all these companies making record profits and paying record dividends to shareholders who then claim they cant afford to give their staff more than say a 4% payrise when if you look at their financials you see that even if they gave them 10% payrise it would still be record profits for the company so how is that fair?
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It is clearly not fair but we live in a world where apparently only pay rises for the less well off cause inflation and massive handout to the wealthy cause growth without inflation. I definitely don’t understand this position and I suspect the leaders of our government don’t either, there appear to be lots of experts out there who know the answers and are shouting them at us from around the world but I’m British and therefore bored of experts the great British exceptionalism will see us through!
 
Greebo said:
I think you find that mot of the workers rights you take as a given are only there now because we had unions and certain parts of our current Govt are looking to remove these rights to make us more competitive.
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But we have a mechanism to deal with that, a democratic society which if it doesn't want that then they won't vote for those suggesting it at the next GE.
 
Chris Wilson said:
where the investors are paid less and low skilled workers paid more? It's patently obvious no one can offer such an example to me, and this Utopia is a pie in the sky dream of anti capitalists.
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Err no... You asked for an example of a country where risk taking investors are paid less and low skilled workers are paid more than in Great Britain.

I suspect that there's lots of examples of developed economies where the income/wealth gap between the two groups is lower.

And like I said, a good place to start would be to look at which countries have seen significantly higher average income growth than Great Britain over the last decade.
 
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mid_gen said:
The Bank of England has had to intervene to prop up the gilt market :

www.bankofengland.co.uk

Bank of England announces gilt market operation

In line with its financial stability objective, the Bank of England stands ready to restore market functioning and reduce any risks from contagion to credit conditions for UK households and businesses.
www.bankofengland.co.uk www.bankofengland.co.uk

Quantitative tightening on hold, back to QE! The wins keep coming.
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I'm not sure they could've come out with a worse solution, they're effectively increasing the supply with one hand (to a select group mind you) while trying to decrease the supply with the other.
Chris Wilson said:
I'll ask again, this successful first world economy where the risk taking investors are paid a lot less and the unskilled and low skilled workers are paid a lot more than in Great Britain, where is it...?
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thenewoc said:
And I've explained to you that I don't believe that your example equates to a pattern of behaviours / outcomes.
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No you haven't. :confused:

But if that's what you're now going on then i question if you've even been following the same conversation, because you saying "Radical times need radical solutions." and me responding by saying "Said every German in 1933." and further explaining that your "Radical times need radical solutions." is a tale as old as the hills and it always ends badly is not a pattern of behaviours / outcomes, it's quiet literally historical facts, the past it littered with examples of societies going through a time of hardship tuning to demagogues (a word from ancient Athens describe exactly the sort of person who offers radical solutions in radical times to the detriment of society).

Those who fail to learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them so i suggest you watch some history programs or even just read a book.
 
200sols said:
They've basically given the govt a few weeks to sort this out, U turn, call a GE or whatever. Its not a long term solution.
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Surely, if they do a U turn they're done right? :D

I mean, is it even possible - you could do this much damage, then be like; "er, soz bout that - we're not doing it anymore" and actually survive in your post??
 
Murphy said:
I'm not sure they could've come out with a worse solution, they're effectively increasing the supply with one hand (to a select group mind you) while trying to decrease the supply with the other.

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No you haven't. :confused:

But if that's what you're now going on then i question if you've even been following the same conversation, because you saying "Radical times need radical solutions." and me responding by saying "Said every German in 1933." and further explaining that your "Radical times need radical solutions." is a tale as old as the hills and it always ends badly is not a pattern of behaviours / outcomes, it's quiet literally historical facts, the past it littered with examples of societies going through a time of hardship tuning to demagogues (a word from ancient Athens describe exactly the sort of person who offers radical solutions in radical times to the detriment of society).

Those who fail to learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them so i suggest you watch some history programs or even just read a book.
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I don't believe you've proven that a radical change to taxation is unequivocally linked with a country proposing to go to war and take over the whole of Europe.
 
Chris Wilson said:
I'll ask again, this successful first world economy where the risk taking investors are paid a lot less and the unskilled and low skilled workers are paid a lot more than in Great Britain, where is it...?
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Iceland, Belgium, France. In fact most of Europe tbh. As fair as the income equality gap goes.

The UK is one of the worst in the world placed 12th where the top 1% earn 31 times more than the bottom 50%. Us is top at 40 times. France is 21 times by comparison and the average earnings of the bottom 50% is 24% higher than the UK. Its just the top 1% earn 14% less than the UK so the ratio is smaller.
 
The UK is actually turning into a banana republic right in front of our eyes. What a time to be alive...............

and for those that don't actually understand what a banana republic is

A banana republic is a country with an economy of state capitalism, whereby the country is operated as a private commercial enterprise for the exclusive profit of the ruling class. Such exploitation is enabled by collusion between the state and favored economic monopolies, in which the profit, derived from the private exploitation of public lands, is private property, while the debts incurred thereby are the financial responsibility of the public treasury.
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sounds pretty close to where we are at right now

Also this is what happens when you say you have had enough of experts and stop actually listening to them to the point where you get rid of them like Kami Kwasi offloading the only really experienced civil servants in the Treasury who would have no doubt been subject matter experts who he didn't want to listen to when they likely advised him that he was going to trash the economy....... sound familiar ??????
 
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