Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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bris said:
Cant happen

If you think about it when Ukraine see a build up on the border again they will have hundreds of arty and aircraft ready for them.

It would be a slaughter before they could even step 1 foot over the border.

Ukraine will not wait again they will see it as an invasion right away.
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May well be a NATO member at that point too.
 
robgmun said:
Why do you think they held sham elections and annexed those areas? Now they can claim they're being attacked on Russian soil and respond with a stronger defence.
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What stronger defence? All they have left is the nuclear threat and they are not going to use that.
 
alchal said:
Oh look, a new Putin bot has appeared.

Who thinks the west is grim? Xi? Putin? Bots from China/Russia/Iran?
Taliban?
Pray tell how many immigrants risk life and limb to reach your beloved Russia/China/Iran/Venezuela/Belarus???
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Zzz. Even though I've stated clearly my position, I'm still just a Russian bot apparently.

And yes quite a lot of people (which I profoundly disagree with hence my post...) have strong objections to lots of western values (tolerance towards homosexuals, women's rights, religious freedom to name but a few things. This is quite evident in quite a few western cities now and will only get worse. I've had first hand experience of this and see how awful it is for 1st, 2nd and even beyond be held captive by the same old ideologies that are counter to western values.

So yes, I would apply the same block on Russians being allowed in and would extend it across rhe board with very few exceptions.

I'm sure the argument will now turn and infact open border policies are actually a good thing.
 
I should also think that Ukraine will be getting rid of their wider gauge railways to end Russia's ability to supply any invasion if/when they're pushed out, mostly irrelevant with NATO but still good deterrence for other eventualities.
 
ICDP said:
This is a false equivalence. Let me see if you can work out the difference in these two defnitions. One applies to Ukrainian's who have had their country illegaly invaded and have been raped and murdered in their thousands. The other is a bunch of people moving of their own volition to avoid being drafted. I doubt you need long to work out what definition applies to what group.

Refugee:
People who have fled war, violence, conflict or persecution and have crossed an international border to find safety in another country.

Emigrant:
An emigrant is someone moves away from a country through their own choice.
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I would consider people drafted to fight a pointless war, ill equipped going into winter.....as much of a refugee as a Syrian man fleeing his homeland......

And would still say both should stay back and fight either Putin or Assad or whichever blend of ******* they have as their leader. The west should guard its gates tightly against all, not just the flavour of whats hot or not this month...
 
ICDP said:
This is a false equivalence. Let me see if you can work out the difference in these two defnitions. One applies to Ukrainian's who have had their country illegaly invaded and have been raped and murdered in their thousands. The other is a bunch of people moving of their own volition to avoid being drafted. I doubt you need long to work out what definition applies to what group.

Refugee:
People who have fled war, violence, conflict or persecution and have crossed an international border to find safety in another country.

Emigrant:
An emigrant is someone moves away from a country through their own choice.
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I strongly disagree with your analysis. If you are a Russian man who is being conscripted to be sent to fight in an offensive war against a peaceful neighbouring country (Ukraine), which you don't agree with, then you are in a very vulnerable position where you are at high risk of being persecuted. If you refuse to submit to conscription and go on the run you will be arrested, beaten up and imprisoned. If you go along with it, but try to creatively find ways to avoid going to the battlefield (conscientious objector etc) you are also likely to get arrested, beaten up and imprisoned. If you try to desert then you will be arrested, beaten up and imprisoned (or shot if it happens on the battlefield). If you refuse to follow orders to torture, rape, kill Ukrainian civilians/PoWs then you will be arrested, beaten up and imprisoned/shot. If you surrender to Ukrainian forces then when the Russians get you back you will be arrested, beaten up and imprisoned. Russian prisons are also extremely brutal places where draft dodgers/deserters/dishonoured soldiers get regular beatings from prisoners/guards.

Therefore, Russian men who are avoiding being drafted to fight in an offensive war against a foreign country are indeed fleeing 'war, violence, conflict or persecution', they are hardly voluntary emigrants like the economic migrants coming here from India, Jamaica etc.

I think that Russian men in that situation should receive political asylum. But, obviously, they have to be checked out carefully so we don't end up bringing in more of Putin's spies and saboteurs.
 
*seven said:
*Roman Berdnikov Becomes Commander-In-Chief of Russia’s Western Military District Replacing Aleksandr Zhuravlyov - Russia’s RBC Outlet

Not sure how significant this is
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They've replaced some head honchos a few times now, so in the scheme of things, probably won't make much difference.

Russia lacks in a lot of areas, their military machine isn't running well.
 
StriderX said:
I should also think that Ukraine will be getting rid of their wider gauge railways to end Russia's ability to supply any invasion if/when they're pushed out, mostly irrelevant with NATO but still good deterrence for other eventualities.
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A good idea but wouldn't they also need to re-design their trains?
 
I saw reports of this yesterday but it was from a dodgy news source, utterly hilarious though now it seems to have been confirmed, how delusional do they have to be to complain to the UN about Ukraine taking back their own territory:


delta0 said:
Reuters reporting significant breakthroughs in the south. https://www.reuters.com/world/europ...y-mulls-possible-nuclear-response-2022-10-02/
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Nice!

Russians and their Tankie supporters are going to go nuts when Kherson gets liberated by Ukraine.
 
dowie said:
I saw reports of this yesterday but it was from a dodgy news source, utterly hilarious though now it seems to have been confirmed, how delusional do they have to be to complain to the UN about Ukraine taking back their own territory:



Nice!

Russians and their Tankie supporters are going to go nuts when Kherson gets liberated by Ukraine.
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It says in brackets (it's a joke!) so doesn't look like you're meant to take it seriously :)
 
Maple Leaf said:
I strongly disagree with your analysis. If you are a Russian man who is being conscripted to be sent to fight in an offensive war against a peaceful neighbouring country (Ukraine), which you don't agree with, then you are in a very vulnerable position where you are at high risk of being persecuted. If you refuse to submit to conscription and go on the run you will be arrested, beaten up and imprisoned. If you go along with it, but try to creatively find ways to avoid going to the battlefield (conscientious objector etc) you are also likely to get arrested, beaten up and imprisoned. If you try to desert then you will be arrested, beaten up and imprisoned (or shot if it happens on the battlefield). If you refuse to follow orders to torture, rape, kill Ukrainian civilians/PoWs then you will be arrested, beaten up and imprisoned/shot. If you surrender to Ukrainian forces then when the Russians get you back you will be arrested, beaten up and imprisoned. Russian prisons are also extremely brutal places where draft dodgers/deserters/dishonoured soldiers get regular beatings from prisoners/guards.

Therefore, Russian men who are avoiding being drafted to fight in an offensive war against a foreign country are indeed fleeing 'war, violence, conflict or persecution', they are hardly voluntary emigrants like the economic migrants coming here from India, Jamaica etc.

I think that Russian men in that situation should receive political asylum. But, obviously, they have to be checked out carefully so we don't end up bringing in more of Putin's spies and saboteurs.
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Sucks to be them, eh? There are a few brave Russian people who are openly protesting against the Putin regime, if there were more maybe he wouldn't be in power right now. The people that are running away are only thinking about saving their own skins and frankly I have little sympathy for them.
 
ChrisLX200 said:
Sucks to be them, eh? There are a few brave Russian people who are openly protesting against the Putin regime, if there were more maybe he wouldn't be in power right now. The people that are running away are only thinking about saving their own skins and frankly I have little sympathy for them.
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How many people do you think would have still protested against the Iraq war in 2002 if they'd known there was a good chance of being imprisoned/beaten (possibly to death), with similar repercussions for their close family?

It's easy to say they should have stood up against it whilst being safe in the UK, with our relatively civilised police force and mostly fair legal system.
 
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