Poll: Mexican Grand Prix 2022, Mexico City - Race 20

[Scam]

I always get the impression that they rely too heavily on 'data' and 'statistics', ignoring real world feedback from their drivers or the unpredictability of motor racing.

I wonder if that's literally why their strategy has struggled this year. New regs, new tyres/wheels, new downforce, new degradation etc. They don't have as much data about the cars and tracks as they did for the last X number of years.

 

[jaybee]

Merc strategy is almost always dodgy. Red Bull almost always do very well with strategy calls, and it nets them a huge amount of points in doing so.

Merc need some new strategists.

I'm not sure I agree. We all now remember the bad calls more of late due to a difficult 2021 and 2022 season for Merc. I think Redbull have definitely been more lucky with their aggressive strategy calls where they have gambled. Ferrari definitely have had problems this season and have not been decisive or proactive when it mattered, and then have over thought things at other times. It's very tricky now with VSC and SC coming so often.

Merc sometimes pulled off some blinders though...

 

[Scam]

I feel also Merc missed a trick with using George to hold up Max. With Redbull, they have utilized Perez before to hold up the Merc. It may not have worked well on this track with such a long straight but it may have been possible. They could have left George out long going into 1st place on mediums splitting the strategy, possibly holding up Max and giving themselves more options. In the end it was a bit safe from Merc and it does feel like neither Lewis or George will have many team orders going forward to "help" each other. It's interesting what George was saying about that he would rather come in 5th than 2nd if it meant 5th was an attempt for a win. I can't remember the exact words but basically they want to prioritize getting a win for the team in the races left. Mexico was an opportunity to do that with Lewis by sacrificing George a little, but I think Merc chose to place George as high as possible for constructors and to not upset him with such orders.

Yeah good point but as you said with the long straight I'm not sure he could do much holding up. George seems like a team player in that he would help Lewis get a win, as long as he wasn't in the running for it too. I don't think he ever was this race and he probably knew it.

 

[Black Noir]

I wonder if that's literally why their strategy has struggled this year. New regs, new tyres/wheels, new downforce, new degradation etc. They don't have as much data about the cars and tracks as they did for the last X number of years.

They had some howlers in 2020 and 2021, so I wouldn't say that's true.

The Merc seems to favour the medium tyres and they were just worried about soft tyre drop-off.

 

[Scam]

I'm not sure I agree. We all now remember the bad calls more of late due to a difficult 2021 and 2022 season for Merc. I think Redbull have definitely been more lucky with their aggressive strategy calls where they have gambled. Ferrari definitely have had problems this season and have not been decisive or proactive when it mattered, and then have over thought things at other times. It's very tricky now with VSC and SC coming so often.

Merc sometimes pulled off some blinders though...

Great video. Is it mad (RB fans say yes ) that even watching turn one on that vid annoys the heck out of me with Max's ridiculous driving. You watch this video with an overhead and at no point was he ahead of Lewis before the corner, he only gets ahead due to Lewis having to abort and turn left. And he then runs him off the road.

 

[jaybee]

Great video. Is it mad (RB fans say yes ) that even watching turn one on that vid annoys the heck out of me with Max's ridiculous driving. You watch this video with an overhead and at no point was he ahead of Lewis before the corner, he only gets ahead due to Lewis having to abort and turn left. And he then runs him off the road.

Max's "challenges" such as that one define the 2021 season in itself. He drove that way throughout, which would have been fine if the FIA set clear guidelines and remained consistent as to whether you could or not. Unfortunately they didn't. Apparently everyone except Max finds that style of driving completely ridiculous and unfair.

 

[Jono8]

Great video. Is it mad (RB fans say yes ) that even watching turn one on that vid annoys the heck out of me with Max's ridiculous driving. You watch this video with an overhead and at no point was he ahead of Lewis before the corner, he only gets ahead due to Lewis having to abort and turn left. And he then runs him off the road.

That was Max through most of 2021 unfortunately.

 

[Hawk Tuah]

Isn't that an identical move to what Lewis pulled on George at the start in Mexico?

 

[Scam]

Max's "challenges" such as that one define the 2021 season in itself. He drove that way throughout, which would have been fine if the FIA set clear guidelines and remained consistent as to whether you could or not. Unfortunately they didn't. Apparently everyone except Max finds that style of driving completely ridiculous and unfair.

Very true. Seems I'm not the only one. Don't get me started if we ever see replays of a SC restart with Max in P2 :rolleues:

Isn't that an identical move to what Lewis pulled on George at the start in Mexico?

I realised I didn't post the better angle of the 2021 Spanish race, but no I don't think they're identical. Max was never infront of Lewis in the first video, yet in the second video (this weekend) you can see Lewis definitely has a nose in front before the corner.

2021 Spain;

(better angle)
2022 Mexico;

George hit the curb before hard, hence why Lewis got in front. You also note he didn't run him off the track...

 

[bayo000]

Isn't it just a significant part of the car that needs to be along side? Which looking at the overhead he did going into the corner. Don't think he actually needed to have part of his car ahead.

 

[mjt]

Lewis is always boring

 

[Scam]

Isn't it just a significant part of the car that needs to be along side? Which looking at the overhead he did going into the corner. Don't think he actually needed to have part of his car ahead.

I think you might be right according to this; https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/60815007

However it doesn't excuse running him off the road every single damn time.

 

[Stumble Bum]

Scam's decision tree.

Is it something to do with Max? ------> Guilty

Is it something to do with Lewis? ------> Stay Quiet / Not guilty.

 

[Scam]

And yours is defend Max and RB no matter what?

I’m not the only one saying Max was guilty of running Lewis off the road all though 2021. His driving was disgusting and dangerous for the most part, I’d argue that until the cows come home. And go watch Jeddah 2021 highlights and tell me I’m wrong.

 

[imtoooldforthis]

And yours is defend Max and RB no matter what?

I’m not the only one saying Max was guilty of running Lewis off the road all though 2021. His driving was disgusting and dangerous for the most part, I’d argue that until the cows come home. And go watch Jeddah 2021 highlights and tell me I’m wrong.

I actually quite like Max but probably the worst piece of officiating in F1 in years (worse than the final race) was him only getting a 10-second penalty for intentional brake-checking. That is almost universally an instant race DQ and potential further race bans in nearly every form of motorsport yet he got away with a penalty that did not even effect his finishing position. Mind-boggling, even his mate Lando said it was ridiculous that you could brake check, be found guilty of it and only get a 10 second penalty.

 

[KiNgPiN83]

Merc strategy is almost always dodgy. Red Bull almost always do very well with strategy calls, and it nets them a huge amount of points in doing so.

Merc need some new strategists.

I feel like this is something that came from the Merc domination years. I.e. RB literally maxed out all the other areas outside of the engine to make up for its deficit. Whereas Merc could kind of be a bit sloppy and fall back on their raw speed... And Ferrari? They always go full Ferrari.

 

[Jono8]

I feel like this is something that came from the Merc domination years. I.e. RB literally maxed out all the other areas outside of the engine to make up for its deficit. Whereas Merc could kind of be a bit sloppy and fall back on their raw speed... And Ferrari? They always go full Ferrari.

Yep, i thyink you are right. Merc didnt need to get the strategy calls right all the time through most of the turbo hybrid era as they were so dominant anyway.

Same with the pit stops. They often seem slow and sloppy with those compared to Red Bull.

 

[Black Noir]

Good video on the race. Apparently the Ferrari doesn’t do well at altitude so they’ve wound the engine down to stop the turbo spinning up too much.

It’s also why it sounded like a milk float through the slow corners. I suspect they’ll also struggle at Brazil for the same reason.

 

[englishpremier]

That's 700m at interalogs vs around 2,300m for CDMX, so shouldn't be anywhere near as much of an issue.

 

[Black Noir]

That's 700m at interalogs vs around 2,300m for CDMX, so shouldn't be anywhere near as much of an issue.

Definitely won't be as bad but they also struggled with the issue of the turbo spinning too fast at the Red Bull Ring (altitude 667m) earlier in the year.