Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

[martynr]

Sickening but unsurprising to see the likes of Farage using this to call Ukraine’s integrity into question.

That clown reminds me of the joke a caller did on him on LBC.

I am still laughing today. Also his surname reminds me of a garage.

 

[Mr Jack]

Ukraine is OBVIOUSLY trying to take advantage of every situation to free their country. I prefer them not to do such, but this is war unfortunately.

They are, and it makes complete sense for them to do so. But they also need to be careful, Ukraine is almost entirely dependent on Western goodwill to successfully fight this war. It is the continued supply of weapons that it needs to secure before anything else. A Ukrainian S-300 hitting Poland isn't going to significantly hurt that, but Ukrainian hitting Poland and then not accepting and apologising for doing so is sowing seeds of distrust.

 

[a1ex2001]

Is it though?

By your logic, it's OK if Russia keeps on sending missiles at various Ukraine targets, most of which are demonstrably not military ones, and sometimes Ukraine (or Russia) will inevitably wind up sending a missile into Poland occasionally due to margin of error.

Italian PM captured my thoughts on this perfectly, which someone posted earlier. It's the fault of Russia for sending the missiles in the first place.

What does whose fault it is matter, what does it change or is it just a pointless academic activity? Great it’s Russias fault whoop what happens now that is different to what happened a week ago?

I’ve never said it’s ok for Russia to target civilians it’s abhorrent but it is war and the targeting of civilians has happened in every major conflict for a 100 years, despite the fact as a tactic it has never really worked.

 

[Brazo]

The assigning of fault is such a pointless academic exercise in this case as intent is what matters if Russia deliberately launches missiles into Poland then it is an entirely different matter to a miscalculation.

Fault and intent are interchangeable when you only have ‘dumb’ missiles rather than precision weaponry.

 

[Dem2k]

I'm not one for CT but yeah I'm with you on this one. It's funny how they (the west) all followed the US lead and all said at the same time it wasn't Russian.

I mean I get it, they don't want a huge escalation to the war. So in the grand scheme of things, it's ok to sweep this under the carpet this time over an unintended hit.

I mean you can always do a CTRL F on this link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missile_guidance for the key word used in the video which was coordinates.

Just notice that coordinates are mainly used in two types of guidance systems today, COLOS, and CLOS, with COLOS being mostly used in anti air today, and CLOS being used in anti-air and anti-tank.

Now I am pretty sure I read that they reported it was a S-300 missile, that is by its very design an anti air missile, and what with the age old adage of what must go up, must come down.

 

[a1ex2001]

Fault and intent are interchangeable when you only have ‘dumb’ missiles rather than precision weaponry.

Hardly

 

[StriderX]

They are, and it makes complete sense for them to do so. But they also need to be careful, Ukraine is almost entirely dependent on Western goodwill to successfully fight this war. It is the continued supply of weapons that it needs to secure before anything else. A Ukrainian S-300 hitting Poland isn't going to significantly hurt that to that, but Ukrainian hitting Poland and then not accepting and apologising for doing so is sowing seeds of distrust.

Well that entirely depends on whether it was actually a Ukrainian or Russian missile doesn't it?

If the US doesn't want to have to respond to a misfired Russian missile then it would have to throw Ukraine under the bus which Ukraine would be insane to apologise for. Of course the fog of war could easily cloud their political statements so having already blamed Russia rather openly it's rather difficult to do a u-turn which provides Russia a degree of ambiguity over the rest of it's obnoxiously belligerent behaviour.

Unfortunately for NATO the fact that it's next to a powerplant and happens to also coincide with coords for Kyiv/Lviv... makes this 'conspiracy' all too believable.

 

[Colonel_Klinck]

That clown reminds me of the joke a caller did on him on LBC.

I am still laughing today. Also his surname reminds me of a garage.

If he hasn't got a bank account somewhere full of rubles I'll be amazed.

 

[Mr Jack]

If the co-ordinates in the video are correct, it's good evidence that it was a Russian attack intended to hit Kyiv or Lviv and with the co-ordinates entered incorrectly. Mixing longitude and latitude from two entries in a list of target co-ordinates is a very plausible human error.

It's not really; it's within 8km of the strike, that's a pretty large area. Now, in the video that guy argues that he thinks that it could have landed nearer the point, but if that's the case why has it been reported as landing near Przewodów rather than the much nearer village of Wyżłów?

A NATO cover-up (with pressure applied to Poland to change their position) is also plausible. Acknowledging a Russian attack on Poland would push NATO into a situation it doesn't want.

NATO isn't going to respond with fire and fury to a Russian missile accidentally hitting a tractor in a tiny Polish village but it would allow them to step up the pressure on Russia and justify greater transfer of weapons to Ukraine. Nor is NATO a single block, Poland is distinctly keener on action than (say) the US so I don't find it particularly plausible that Poland would lie about this.

 

[Mr Jack]

If he hasn't got a bank account somewhere full of rubles I'll be amazed.

I don't think Putes would need to pay Nige, it's just fash respecting fellow fash.

 

[Sankari]

Some more good news for Ukraine:

Australian mining magnate Andrew Forrest has committed $US500 million ($744 million) towards a multi-billion dollar fund to help rebuild Ukraine. Andrew and Nicola Forrest's investment, through the Tattarang Group, will form part of a planned minimum $US25 billion Ukraine Green Growth Initiative.

With support from other global investors, Tattarang expects the fund to grow to at least $US100 billion, to be poured into primary infrastructure including energy and communications.

In a release, Tattarang said the idea was to "achieve rapid reconstruction of Ukraine post-hostilities".

Speaking to ABC Radio National, Dr Forrest said he wanted to make sure the people of Ukraine knew there would be "a bright future when they do expel the Russian forces".

"Investing in Ukraine, once they expel the Russian forces to the satisfaction of the Ukrainian government, will be I believe a good investment, and therefore I'm prepared to lead that," he said.

(Source).

You love to see it!

 

[Tephnos]

It's not really; it's within 8km of the strike, that's a pretty large area. Now, in the video that guy argues that he thinks that it could have landed nearer the point, but if that's the case why has it been reported as landing near Przewodów rather than the much nearer village of Wyżłów?



NATO isn't going to respond with fire and fury to a Russian missile accidentally hitting a tractor in a tiny Polish village but it would allow them to step up the pressure on Russia and justify greater transfer of weapons to Ukraine. Nor is NATO a single block, Poland is distinctly keener on action than (say) the US so I don't find it particularly plausible that Poland would lie about this.

Russian missiles aren't exactly known for their accuracy.

I'm of the belief that NATO are backpedalling on this one because they don't want to escalate with Russia at this point. Ukraine is winning, Russia is on the backfoot and bleeding. Turning off emotions, is it better to get more involved and give Russia an out, or is it better to continue with the way things are going right now and continue bleeding Russia's army out, while destabilising Russia and their allies?

Zelenskyy made it pretty clear that he would take responsibility if it was a Ukrainian missile, but he wants proof (to view the missile) himself as he is trusting what his military are telling him.

 

[Mr Jack]

Russian missiles aren't exactly known for their accuracy.

This is true, but the argument relies on the notion of accuracy. Otherwise, you may as well saying it was aimed at the powerplant within Ukraine, or based on a whole load of other targets. That wouldn't be any less convincing than saying than it landed quite a way from a point you could get the co-ordinates for by messing up with the co-ordinates of a couple of Ukrainian cities. There's dozens of plausible missed targets in Ukraine for the Russians to have been shooting at. It doesn't really impact what likelihood we can assign to either version of events.

 

[Roar87]

Russian missiles aren't exactly known for their accuracy.

I'm of the belief that NATO are backpedalling on this one because they don't want to escalate with Russia at this point. Ukraine is winning, Russia is on the backfoot and bleeding. Turning off emotions, is it better to get more involved and give Russia an out, or is it better to continue with the way things are going right now and continue bleeding Russia's army out, while destabilising Russia and their allies?

Zelenskyy made it pretty clear that he would take responsibility if it was a Ukrainian missile, but he wants proof (to view the missile) himself as he is trusting what his military are telling him.

NATO isn't some homogenous entity where everyone agrees on the same course of action. If a Russian missile was fired at Poland by Russia and killed 2 Polish citizens Poland would probably be mobilising it's military and heading into Ukraine with or without NATO support.

 

[grudas]

NATO isn't some homogenous entity where everyone agrees on the same course of action. If a Russian missile was fired at Poland by Russia and killed 2 Polish citizens Poland would probably be mobilising it's military and heading into Ukraine with or without NATO support.

Everyone knows that escalating it more would result in more damage than current 2 deaths. If 10 missiles reached Poland I can guarantee you it’d be a different story. But single one, near the border is a very much a mistake or a test.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

NATO isn't some homogenous entity where everyone agrees on the same course of action. If a Russian missile was fired at Poland by Russia and killed 2 Polish citizens Poland would probably be mobilising it's military and heading into Ukraine with or without NATO support.

The first thing they would do would be to seek resolution that it was indeed an attack. That way they have the backing of NATO
If they rush off to attack Russia without that and events turned against them they would not necessarily fall under the defences of the other nations as they would be seen as the aggressor.

 

[CaptainRAVE]

We’re so passed the point where Ukraine should have been given equipment to strike Russia. Crazy Russia is still allowed to fire missiles into Ukraine. Or at least some decent air defence.

 

[Roar87]

We’re so passed the point where Ukraine should have been given equipment to strike Russia. Crazy Russia is still allowed to fire missiles into Ukraine. Or at least some decent air defence.

We're passed the point where we should want to escalate to a strategic nuclear exchange? Crazy how people are actually this stupid

 

[Scougar]

We're passed the point where we should want to escalate to a strategic nuclear exchange? Crazy how people are actually this stupid

You have to admit though, there is some disparity of Russia completely wrecking a country at will at that country not being able/allowed to fire back into Russia, due to some mythical escalation that is unlikely to occur.

 

[Terminal_Boy]

We’re so passed the point where Ukraine should have been given equipment to strike Russia. Crazy Russia is still allowed to fire missiles into Ukraine. Or at least some decent air defence.

That would be seen as going beyond defending and retaking their sovereign territory.

What Ukraine should have is the equipment to turn any uninvited object in their airspace into flaming scrap.