Even Augustus Gloop ain't safe (Dahl being censored)

NVP said:
How does the sanitisation of kids books lead to a repeat of the Holocaust? @Dis86 I found that drama you were looking for...
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I'm not referring specifically to the holocaust, more questioning how we are supposed to learn from our mistakes if we pretend they never happened?
 
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Dis86 said:
Things always have a beginning do they not? A butterfly flaps it's wings...
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That Ray Bradbury story had had the butterfly replaced with a happy bee.

Also, they're not time travelling to hunt dinosaurs, but to photograph them.

*I have made all of this up, as it's depressingly possible this may happen
 
Haggisman said:
I'm not referring specifically to the holocaust, more questioning how we are supposed to learn from our mistakes if we pretend they never happened?
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Absolutely. It can also fairly rapidly progress from someone deciding they don't like a specific demographic mentioned to someone else deciding said demographic shouldn't exist.

The USSR did exactly that. People were removed from literature and photographs and then literally removed.
 
Haggisman said:
I'm not referring specifically to the holocaust, more questioning how we are supposed to learn from our mistakes if we pretend they never happened?
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the problem is though, people use these these things to normalise bad behaviour.

and kid‘s stuff normalises things for kids. That’s why we have film classifications for example.

so whilst there should always be room for discussion about how badly behaved humans are, the more risk averse amongst us, like book publishers and media producers aren’t beholden to provide that without a suitable framework in which they can do so with minimal risk.

if someone wrote books aimed at kids using the imagery and themes that Dahl uses today, publishers wouldn’t touch it with a barge pole and most people would probably agree. The only difference here is that dahls works are fondly remembered by adults who will argue that reading them didn’t do them any harm.

anyone want to see the return of the gollywog on marmalade jars?
 
NVP said:
...but these are kids books :confused: If they start changing history lessons then perhaps.
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That's something that has also happened. A pertinent example to yourself might be the description and account of the Partition of India in British textbooks, Indian and Pakistani. They all portray it in very different ways with the portrayal changing from a united explanation to a very polarised one in more recent times. The same continues with the partition of Bangladesh from Pakistan.
The Pakistani portrayals are very one sided (everyone hated them, the Indians used them as slaves and then started attacking them, the Indians stirred up the Bangladeshi's against them), the Indian and British versions somewhat closer to the understood truth albeit again with prejudices included.
 
Surely the elephant in the room here is that a lot of Roald Dahl’s views and opinions were offensive through the lens of the 1970s let alone today, despite the efforts of his family to rehabilitate his image. Without this, I suspect modern editors would be a little less drastic.

The decision is 100% about money though. I’ve no idea if his family have any sway in how the books are treated but I suspect they’re more protective of royalties than his artistic legacy.
 
Dis86 said:
That's something that has also happened. A pertinent example to yourself might be the description and account of the Partition of India in British textbooks, Indian and Pakistani. They all portray it in very different ways with the portrayal changing from a united explanation to a very polarised one in more recent times. The same continues with the partition of Bangladesh from Pakistan.
The Pakistani portrayals are very one sided (everyone hated them, the Indians used them as slaves and then started attacking them, the Indians stirred up the Bangladeshi's against them), the Indian and British versions somewhat closer to the understood truth albeit again with prejudices included.
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I'm confused, who changed what?

I didn't know this is now taught in schools either, all I remember is Caesar and King Henry the 8th. I hope they're taught about the EIC too, that would be nice :)
 
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NVP said:
I'm confused, who changed what?

I didn't know this is now taught in schools either, all I remember is Caesar and King Henry the 8th. I hope they're taught about the EIC too, that would be nice :)
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The Pakistani and Indian authorities have changed the books from their original versions to portray things differently. TBH the British version has also been revised but to be more accurate rather than painting us as some sort of saviours.
 
inogen said:
the problem is though, people use these these things to normalise bad behaviour.

and kid‘s stuff normalises things for kids. That’s why we have film classifications for example.
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This sounds exactly like the "he only shot up his school because he played Call of Duty" argument :cry:
inogen said:
If someone wrote books aimed at kids using the imagery and themes that Dahl uses today, publishers wouldn’t touch it with a barge pole and most people would probably agree.
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Nobody is preventing current writers from writing books which reflect current attitudes :confused:

inogen said:
The only difference here is that dahls works are fondly remembered by adults who will argue that reading them didn’t do them any harm.
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Are you suggesting that those adults are wrong? What harm exactly did it cause them?
 
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NVP said:
...but these are kids books :confused: If they start changing history lessons then perhaps.
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The Woman King tells the feted story of a slave trading nation just downplaying their problematic economy built on slave trading. Performed by a largely black cast many of whom enjoy blaming white supremacy for the World's woes. Roald Dahl is not the thin end of the wedge, the wedge is well and truly jammed in and the Dahl "improvements" are just a now routine part of the re-imagining of the past.
 
If someone else makes changes to a piece of art. It's no longer the same piece of art.

These changes no longer make it stories written by Roald Dahl. They shouldn't have the author name on them
 
robgmun said:
If someone else makes changes to a piece of art. It's no longer the same piece of art.

These changes no longer make it stories written by Roald Dahl.
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i don’t think anyone would disagree with that, the question is though, are those works of art suitable for children, and as such, should the rights holder change them in order to continue selling them in the numbers that they do.
 
esmozz said:
How is this different (apart from by the degree) to the Taliban blowing up statues/defacing works of art etc that are 'problematic' to their belief system?
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One is rooted in commercial economics, the other in forceful oppression.


Do people really think like this :confused:
 
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