Water softeners and limescale

b0rn2sk8 · 18 Mar 2023 at 03:23

Most softeners need two separate exit pipes, one for the waste water from back flushing and an emergency overflow.

To be honest, I’d agree that the evacuation pipe would be classed as foul water and you 100% can’t connect foul water to rain water drains or a soak away. It’s also not an insignificant amount of waster used in the back flushing process either.

You’ll not find a regulation specifically about water softeners but there are quite clear regulations about not connecting foul water to waste water drains (and vice versa).

DB_SamX · 18 Mar 2023 at 09:03

Yeah i absolutely know not to connect toul water to rainwater drainage generally, just not been sure if the evacuation is classed as foul water or not. What's in the water exiting during the flushing process?

b0rn2sk8 · 18 Mar 2023 at 10:02

It’s where most of the salt goes that you put into the machine and will pretty toxic to the ground as more and more salt gets deposited in a very localised area.

It’s certainly foul water.

DB_SamX · 19 Mar 2023 at 13:31

Could anyone who is in a 1 or 2 person property tell me how often their water softener regenerates?

I am trying to work out how extra-over water it will use a month, and so far I estimate the following:
Harveys advise 0.3kg salt and 17l water use per regen. According to the salesman, he reckoned I would use two minicurve salt blocks (2.15kg each) a month in my one-person flat = 4.3kg. 4.3/0.3 = 14.3 regens a month (every other day effectively) x 17l = 243l a month. My average water use a month according to Southern Water is 3810 (127l/day), so I would be looking at 6.4% increase. It's no insignificant!

Any corrections welcome.

b0rn2sk8 · 19 Mar 2023 at 20:34

Mine is every few days but the reality is 17l of water is very little. Its 3 toilet flushes if you are into silly comparisons.

I have not checked by bill recently but 1000L of water is under £3 including assumed drainage charge. Even if its regenerating daily, its £3 of water every 2 months. Salt is where the £££ goes.

If you are worried about the running costs, don't buy an over priced softener some some like Harveys that also locks you into expensive block salt. Tablet salt is significantly cheaper and you can get a softener installed for about half the price that will do exactly the same job as well.

ADT · 20 Mar 2023 at 14:15

Harvey’s quoted me £1500 to supply and fit a softener.

I ended up buying a Water2buy unit from Amazon which cost me around £330 last year and spent another £50-70 on the fitting kit and some connectors from wickes and installed it myself.

So far so good I would highly recommend it as it helped a lot with my eczema

b0rn2sk8 · 20 Mar 2023 at 15:10

ADT said:
Harvey’s quoted me £1500 to supply and fit a softener.

I ended up buying a Water2buy unit from Amazon which cost me around £330 last year and spent another £50-70 on the fitting kit and some connectors from wickes and installed it myself.

So far so good I would highly recommend it as it helped a lot with my eczema

This basically. I and @dLockers have the same unit. I paid a plumber a few £ for mine, £400 for the metered softener and I think I was about £520 all in.

The fundamental internals of the unit is identical to Harvey’s.

Syla5 · 20 Mar 2023 at 15:48

Jumping in here as interested as well, ill be honest if skimmed most of the thread only so apologise if this has already been asked. Is there any additional requirements when fitting a softener to a house where you have a Combi Boiler?

Skilid · 20 Mar 2023 at 15:55

I got a BWT water softener from Screwfix for £400. Paid a local plumber ~£100 to put it in. For 2 people in a 3 bed semi it's great. Probably spend £5-£10 a month on salt but it's so worth it. Showers are much nicer, doing dishes is easier, cleaning is easier. We don't drink it, but we do filter our drink water with a Brita jug.

It requires electricity but only for the onboard computer. It doesn't have a pump so uses naff all power.

b0rn2sk8 · 20 Mar 2023 at 18:23

Syla5 said:
Jumping in here as interested as well, ill be honest if skimmed most of the thread only so apologise if this has already been asked. Is there any additional requirements when fitting a softener to a house where you have a Combi Boiler?

Not that I am aware of.

~Mike~ · 20 Mar 2023 at 19:02

I need to buy some more salt, looks like it's gone up by about £5 a bag from last time I bought some, around a year ago.

DB_SamX · 22 Mar 2023 at 08:47

I've come to terms with not being able to have a water softener in my flat due to lack of foul drainage where it was due to go.

I am now wondering what the next best thing is. Are in-line water conditioners worth considering?

LuckyBenski · 22 Mar 2023 at 08:57

DB_SamX said:
I've come to terms with not being able to have a water softener in my flat due to lack of foul drainage where it was due to go.

I am now wondering what the next best thing is. Are in-line water conditioners worth considering?

This was my original line of thinking too, before I was replacing most of the plumbing. Interested to hear opinions. I know I found positive reviews from installers and users, but wouldn't mind more detail.

b0rn2sk8 · 22 Mar 2023 at 09:14

DB_SamX said:
I've come to terms with not being able to have a water softener in my flat due to lack of foul drainage where it was due to go.

I am now wondering what the next best thing is. Are in-line water conditioners worth considering?

You mean effectively a massive carbon filter on your supply?

It will have limited impact on scale, they are effectively just a massive Brita filter from one of those jugs. They mainly deal with taste and chlorine.

LuckyBenski · 22 Mar 2023 at 09:45

b0rn2sk8 said:
You mean effectively a massive carbon filter on your supply?

It will have limited impact on scale, they are effectively just a massive Brita filter from one of those jugs. They mainly deal with taste and chlorine.

No, it's a (I think?) magnetic or electrolytic device you place in-line. The idea is that it polarises the scale so it doesn't stick to pipes etc. Eventually the charge wears off and you replace the filter unit (years though).

DB_SamX · 22 Mar 2023 at 11:06

b0rn2sk8 said:
You mean effectively a massive carbon filter on your supply?

It will have limited impact on scale, they are effectively just a massive Brita filter from one of those jugs. They mainly deal with taste and chlorine.

As LuckyBenski has said, they are more like descalers. Example: https://www.water-conditioners.co.uk/

Admittedly their prices seem outrageous compared to the <£100 units at Screwfix and the likes. I'll do some reading on them, and try to find impartial feedback.

krooton · 22 Mar 2023 at 14:08

DB_SamX said:
Could anyone who is in a 1 or 2 person property tell me how often their water softener regenerates?

I am trying to work out how extra-over water it will use a month, and so far I estimate the following:
Harveys advise 0.3kg salt and 17l water use per regen. According to the salesman, he reckoned I would use two minicurve salt blocks (2.15kg each) a month in my one-person flat = 4.3kg. 4.3/0.3 = 14.3 regens a month (every other day effectively) x 17l = 243l a month. My average water use a month according to Southern Water is 3810 (127l/day), so I would be looking at 6.4% increase. It's no insignificant!

Any corrections welcome.

We have a non-electric twin Harveys thingy, 2 people in South London, go through to 2 salt bricks every 5 weeks, so roughly £9/month. Totally worth it.

LuckyBenski · 17 Dec 2023 at 11:31

Well 9 months later and we've had the main water feed replaced from the meter into the house. Finishing the porch conversion I should be in a position soon to fit a water softener or other solution.

Any more thoughts? @DB_SamX Did you get a chance to get feedback or fit one yourself?

cuke2u · 17 Dec 2023 at 13:13

We had a Monach Midi HE installed recently https://monarchwater.co.uk/ultimate-electric-softener-midi-he-by-monarch-water-no-1-in-class/ I would personally not tackle the installation myself as it involved drilling through the outer wall for a overflow drain tube, plus a tap should really be left connected directly to the mains https://monarchwater.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/Ultimate_Electric_Install_Guide.pdf
It does start doing it's job right away and there is a noticeable difference to our water, we live in a very hard area. The house is 20 years old, detached 4 bed, so it'll probably take time to de-limescale all the pipes but it's nice not having to clean the shower as often as we used to.

Hyburnate · 17 Dec 2023 at 13:20

b0rn2sk8 said:
This basically. I and @dLockers have the same unit. I paid a plumber a few £ for mine, £400 for the metered softener and I think I was about £520 all in.

The fundamental internals of the unit is identical to Harvey’s.

Hopefully this pages you both in.

Would you be able to share a model?

We're having a belfast sink installed, see snip below of kitchen design and I want to try to get a water softener in, we are supplied via lead and not sure my chances of easily getting this replaced and being in the Northants area, awful levels of hard water.

We have also got a boiling water tap going in also so need the boiler for that, so all things considered, it's going to be pretty tight but the cupboard next to the sink is an option also!