Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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Rroff said:
Russian presidential fleet up this morning - according to Putin's schedule he seems to be in a series of meetings with Russian regional governments at the moment, but I'm assuming from the activity last night there has been some kind of government meeting and today's activities are the outcome of that.
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Probably flown as a decoy given what defected Russian security agents have told us about Putin security arrangements, his prefered method of transportation in by train (which is a curious choice from an historical perspective given what happened to the Romanovs' train that was halted at Omsk station in 1917).
 
Rroff said:
CIWS can't react quickly enough to something like the Kinzhal as is - theoretically if stuff like Phalanx was close to the target and was fed data from fire control systems with sufficient ability it has the potential to destroy them - a relatively niche scenario though so they probably didn't/won't ever bother with implementing it.
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I remember chatting to a friend in the Navy a few years back ; Phalanx kinetics couldnt stop a high speed `vampire` at further enough distance so the ship wouldnt be damaged by the explosion. Goalkeeper was better (30mm vs 20mm) but its not a bolt on system.
 
Harlequin said:
I remember chatting to a friend in the Navy a few years back ; Phalanx kinetics couldnt stop a high speed `vampire` at further enough distance so the ship wouldnt be damaged by the explosion. Goalkeeper was better (30mm vs 20mm) but its not a bolt on system.
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Yep indeed. Its trying to reduce very very very bad outcome to just very bad.
 
Harlequin said:
I remember chatting to a friend in the Navy a few years back ; Phalanx kinetics couldnt stop a high speed `vampire` at further enough distance so the ship wouldnt be damaged by the explosion. Goalkeeper was better (30mm vs 20mm) but its not a bolt on system.
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It would be a very desperate situation anyhow - probably why there hasn't been much development of such capability. I believe the system they were trialling on HMS Lancaster is capable of it on paper (but not implemented).
 
Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
Yep indeed. Its trying to reduce very very very bad outcome to just very bad.
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Engagement range or a system vs adversary closing rate. Mach 5 is 1.07 miles per second and CIWS has an effective range of 1 mile. Which, at best will be 3 seconds of firing. The gun shoots 75 rounds a second, each weighing 3 ounces at a target with a mass of 4 tons.
 
Rroff said:
It would be a very desperate situation anyhow - probably why there hasn't been much development of such capability. I believe the system they were trialling on HMS Lancaster is capable of it on paper (but not implemented).
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A mic of CIWS and SeaRam is better - Iron Dome works well, im sure the US would love to get Sea Ram or a land based version into Kyiv to test it as defence for the PAC battery
 
Harlequin said:
Engagement range or a system vs adversary closing rate. Mach 5 is 1.07 miles per second and CIWS has an effective range of 1 mile. Which, at best will be 3 seconds of firing. The gun shoots 75 rounds a second, each weighing 3 ounces at a target with a mass of 4 tons.
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Yeah which is why I believe all the effort into lasers, since "speed" obviously but also once on target the damage is likely more destructive to the incoming
 
Harlequin said:
Engagement range or a system vs adversary closing rate. Mach 5 is 1.07 miles per second and CIWS has an effective range of 1 mile. Which, at best will be 3 seconds of firing. The gun shoots 75 rounds a second, each weighing 3 ounces at a target with a mass of 4 tons.
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Though quoted as Mach 4+ in terminal for the Kinzhal I have my doubts - few Russian claims have been seen in reality in this respect - they've never had a successful test of Zircon for instance above half its claimed velocities.

EDIT: Almost forgot what I was actually going to post - against stuff like ships these missile have to slow down in the terminal phase to be able to target them.
 
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Rroff said:
Though quoted as Mach 4+ in terminal for the Kinzhal I have my doubts - few Russian claims have been seen in reality in this respect - they've never had a successful test of Zircon for instance above half its claimed velocities.

EDIT: Almost forgot what I was actually going to post - against stuff like ships these missile have to slow down in the terminal phase to be able to target them.
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Been thinking about a gun based system - could they even react quickly enough? Phalanx has a tracking range of about 8km - so from initially picking up the incoming to impact is 4 seconds. Slaving the initial tracking to a bigger radar gives it more time, but even so, the usual sphere of engagement is 6km inwards, and at 1.7km a second, thats 4 seconds of firing , so about 2 seconds to walk the stream onto target. RIM or a laser would be better.
 
www.nytimes.com

U.S. Officials Confirm Damage to Patriot Defense System in Kyiv Attack (Published 2023)

Officials in Kyiv and one U.S. official said air defense systems intercepted hypersonic missiles, demonstrating Ukraine’s growing capability to defend against Russia’s arsenal of aerial weapons.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com


Edit: Also looks like they detained people who filmed Ukrainian air defense working. It's literally saving their lives, yet they decided to post it online. Great for us the watcher, but bad for them.
 
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Harlequin said:
Been thinking about a gun based system - could they even react quickly enough? Phalanx has a tracking range of about 8km - so from initially picking up the incoming to impact is 4 seconds. Slaving the initial tracking to a bigger radar gives it more time, but even so, the usual sphere of engagement is 6km inwards, and at 1.7km a second, thats 4 seconds of firing , so about 2 seconds to walk the stream onto target. RIM or a laser would be better.
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It's also got to move the barrel in that time to face the threat before firing and correcting.
 
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Harlequin said:
Been thinking about a gun based system - could they even react quickly enough? Phalanx has a tracking range of about 8km - so from initially picking up the incoming to impact is 4 seconds. Slaving the initial tracking to a bigger radar gives it more time, but even so, the usual sphere of engagement is 6km inwards, and at 1.7km a second, thats 4 seconds of firing , so about 2 seconds to walk the stream onto target. RIM or a laser would be better.
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The only way is slaved to something like the system they've been testing on HMS Lancaster and HMS Dragon - no existing gun based system has the capability to react in time. (Also takes 2-4 seconds for the ammo to reach maximum effective range depending on system).

EDIT: It is not a solution, just technically feasible.

EDIT2: You also potentially have the problem that a ballistic missile can come in at a steeper angle than these gun systems are designed to pitch up to, though that isn't an unsurmountable problem.
 
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Scougar said:
www.nytimes.com

U.S. Officials Confirm Damage to Patriot Defense System in Kyiv Attack (Published 2023)

Officials in Kyiv and one U.S. official said air defense systems intercepted hypersonic missiles, demonstrating Ukraine’s growing capability to defend against Russia’s arsenal of aerial weapons.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com


Edit: Also looks like they detained people who filmed Ukrainian air defense working. It's literally saving their lives, yet they decided to post it online. Great for us the watcher, but bad for them.
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TBH people are always going to be curious, etc. some exceptions aside in these kind of situations you are better operating under the assumption someone or something somewhere is going to be leaking information even if it is just an errant CCTV camera being streamed online everyone has forgot about, etc. etc.
 
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*Hungary to Block Further EU Aid to Ukraine: Foreign Minister
*Hungary Won’t Back Sanctions, EPF Tranche Allocation Until Ukraine Whitelists OTP Bank - Foreign Minister Facebook Live

*Russian FinMin Siluanov: Russia Oil and Gas Revenue This Year Behind Plan
 
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Turn said:
*Hungary to Block Further EU Aid to Ukraine: Foreign Minister
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Apparently it is also Poland blocking. Poland and Hungary have a weird relationship though. It's Orban that's the problem though, not Hungary.

Also, read past the headline. EU blocked funding to Hungary for something else...
 
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