Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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Roar87 said:
I think the best solution would be for a cease fire to occur and for all sides to speak to each other to find a solution that is acceptable for all parties. The reality of that will be compromises from both sides, but Russia isn't going to disappear as a country and neither is Ukraine, the EU and NATO. Clearly more work needs to be done by our leaders that stops Ukrainian and Russian soldiers and civilians being killed. Our leaders have failed their citizens on both sides.
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But Russia haven't shown any interest in a ceasefire. They're still actively attacking Ukrainian front lines and cities. A ceasefire doesn't fit with Russian stated objectives.

You see the flaw here?
 
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Roar87 said:
I think the best solution would be for a cease fire to occur and for all sides to speak to each other to find a solution that is acceptable for all parties. The reality of that will be compromises from both sides, but Russia isn't going to disappear as a country and neither is Ukraine, the EU and NATO. Clearly more work needs to be done by our leaders that stops Ukrainian and Russian soldiers and civilians being killed. Our leaders have failed their citizens on both sides.
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You are completely ignoring the actions of people like Putin and Lavrov, etc. sure the West doesn't have the best track record when it comes to these things but Russia has repeatedly trampled all over any kind of good faith.
 
Minstadave said:
But Russia haven't shown any interest in a ceasefire. They're still actively attacking Ukrainian front lines and cities.

You see the flaw here?
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The Russians were in negotiations early on, they were taking place in Turkey.

www.bbc.co.uk

Johnson on Ukraine: No choice but to stay the course

There is "absolutely no sign" that Russia wants to reach a deal with Ukraine, says Boris Johnson.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk

Boris Johnson advised Zelensky not to speak to Putin, Zelensky since said he wouldn't negotiate with Russia as long as Putin was in charge.

There's currently no efforts being made to seek a cease fire by either side, the US obviously hold most of the cards and could simply tell Zelensky to negotiate, but Biden hasn't done that - nor has he reached out to Putin to see what agreements could be made.

Essentially everyone is happy to continue fighting, I'd conclude that our leaders are failing the people on the ground.
 
MikeTimbers said:
Of course! Why has no-one thought of this before?

Russia wants Ukraine to become part of Russia and to eliminate all of the current government and all the Nazis (whoever they are).
Ukraine would like its land back and reparations for the massive destruction of well, everything and all the people killed and wounded.

Perhaps you'd like to come up with a compromise that meets both those goals.
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Russia doesn't have plans for Ukraine to become part of Russia, clearly they thought knocking out the government in Kyiv early on would work, but their current plans seem not to stretch beyond the Eastern parts of Ukraine plus Crimea that they already control.

Ideally Russia would respect the Ukrainian borders prior to 2014, they'd let Ukraine join the EU and later NATO and live happily ever after, but in reality Ukraine joining NATO - which it could be argued it de facto already has done - represented a red line for Russia, something they made abundantly clear and something we just chose to ignore. Hence the current conflict, but hey, at least we're achieving the strategic goal of a weakened Russian state.
 
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Roar87 said:
I think the best solution would be for a cease fire to occur and for all sides to speak to each other to find a solution that is acceptable for all parties. The reality of that will be compromises from both sides, but Russia isn't going to disappear as a country and neither is Ukraine, the EU and NATO. Clearly more work needs to be done by our leaders that stops Ukrainian and Russian soldiers and civilians being killed. Our leaders have failed their citizens on both sides.
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Genius! So they should stop fighting and talk it out.

Brilliant. Have you considered applying for a job as a hostage negotiator?
 
Rroff said:
Something often overlooked I think a significant motivation for Putin with this war is the fact that Ukraine was moving Westward and improving its standards of living, social freedoms, etc. etc. as it did so making for a marked contrast to Russia - something which threatens Putin due to the links between the two countries (meaning it is harder to hide the disparity domestically).

Dragging Ukraine down and having them mired in a frozen conflict suits him fine in that respect and somewhat drags the West into it economically supporting Ukraine as well.

I can see Putin trying to engineer a provocation resulting in a NATO clash with Russian forces even at huge loss of Russian lives to be able to sell it domestically as to how they are defending against NATO aggression and fighting the whole of NATO when pulling back to defensive positions along their western border.
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Never in Putins thinking, he just wanted Ukraine because he thought it would be easy to get.

He never in a thousand years thought NATO would be Supplying them what they are, he has screwed up here and he knows it by now as the knifes will be out for him.

He will be one paranoid dictator scared to move for fear of assassination which will one day come.
 
Roar87 said:
I think the best solution would be for a cease fire to occur and for all sides to speak to each other to find a solution that is acceptable for all parties. The reality of that will be compromises from both sides, but Russia isn't going to disappear as a country and neither is Ukraine, the EU and NATO. Clearly more work needs to be done by our leaders that stops Ukrainian and Russian soldiers and civilians being killed. Our leaders have failed their citizens on both sides.
Click to expand...
Roar87 said:
The Russians were in negotiations early on, they were taking place in Turkey.

www.bbc.co.uk

Johnson on Ukraine: No choice but to stay the course

There is "absolutely no sign" that Russia wants to reach a deal with Ukraine, says Boris Johnson.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk

Boris Johnson advised Zelensky not to speak to Putin, Zelensky since said he wouldn't negotiate with Russia as long as Putin was in charge.

There's currently no efforts being made to seek a cease fire by either side, the US obviously hold most of the cards and could simply tell Zelensky to negotiate, but Biden hasn't done that - nor has he reached out to Putin to see what agreements could be made.

Essentially everyone is happy to continue fighting, I'd conclude that our leaders are failing the people on the ground.
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What sort of cloud cuckoo fairy land are you living in?

All your posts in this thread have been asinine. But these last two take the biscuit.

And you haven't answered the question either. What Outcome are you advocating for?
 
Roar87 said:
I think the best solution would be for a cease fire to occur and for all sides to speak to each other to find a solution that is acceptable for all parties. The reality of that will be compromises from both sides, but Russia isn't going to disappear as a country and neither is Ukraine, the EU and NATO. Clearly more work needs to be done by our leaders that stops Ukrainian and Russian soldiers and civilians being killed. Our leaders have failed their citizens on both sides.
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Right. One side wants black, the other wants white, and grey is totally unacceptable to both sides and won't even discuss it. Your solution is?
 
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Uther said:
I don't think they will get it all back though (Crimea...) so I suspect it will end up in a stalemate / iron curtain situation.
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it depends, if they can win the rest of Ukraine back then Russia will be more or less a spent force, then it could end long drawn out seige for Crimea
 
Twinz said:
It was also "obvious" that Russia was going to steamroll Ukraine in a matter of days or weeks when this all kicked off.

So "obvious" yet, now we know, so wrong.

I think it's time to recalibrate our assumptions of Russia's effectiveness in light of their (lack of) performance we have witnessed in this war.

If Putin gains anything from this aggression, he will just do it again, and again, and again. The lives that are being lost now are arguably a direct result of the capitulation with Crimea. Putin has demonstrated that the more you Capitulate, the more he takes.

He will not stop until he is FORCED to stop.
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3 days they said, the State news boasted 2 days and Ukraine would be a puppet state like Belarus. Their words like Belarus.

Its no secret either they were eyeing up Finland, then Sweden etc, they had it all planned out, if it wernt for those pesky kids
 
*NATO’s Stoltenberg: I Expect Allies Will Agree on New Investment Pledge of 2% of GDP for Defence at Upcoming Vilnius Summit

*Ukraine Deputy DefMin: Russia Has Significantly Strengthened Its Forces in Bakhmut, Brought in Large Number of Reserve Forces
*Ukraine Deputy DefMin: Kyiv Forces Control Southwestern Part of Bakhmut
*Ukraine Deputy DefMin: Fierce Battles Raged Throughout Day in Bakhmut’s Southern Outskirts, Russian Forces Went Back on the Offensive
*Ukraine Deputy DefMin: Ukrainian Forces Advanced 1 KM in Some Places
*Ukraine Deputy DefMin: ‘We’re Buying Time for Certain Planned Actions’
 
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