Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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Peter75 said:
Push the Russians back to their border, Ukraine join NATO and are then protected under that defensive umbrella. Obviously there are many potential road blocks such as can Ukraine join NATO considering they're still technically at war etc. I'm sure someone in these forums who is versed in the technicalities of NATO application requirements could explain why they wont/will be able to join but I'm sure exceptions can and will be made to allow them. Lets be honest, this has been a war of growing exceptions.
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You can't be accepted into NATO if you're currently in a De Facto state of war, and playing host to the most deadly European conflict since WW2 definitely applies.

There are other factors too like you need to meet certain military targets to join NATO. This is why when Russia invaded Georgia in 2008 they left willingly after they had done enough damage to Georgia's military infrastructure to make them no longer a viable applicant.

Also one wildcard to this that many don't realise is that NATO article 4 is not an agreement to go to war with somebody if they attack a member, it's an agreement to provide support to that member (it was specifically set up this way at the behest of the USA so they had no binding agreement to actually show up if the USSR invaded western Europe). Even if Ukraine had joined NATO before Russia invaded them it's not guaranteed that much about this conflict would really have changed apart from NATO members being quicker to send equipment to Ukraine.


Firestar_3x said:
In which case it's interesting why the US isn't scraping the A-10 and is going to upgrade and extend the service life significantly.
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Because the geriatric politicians that decide these things still have the hype imagery playing in their minds and don't really care about minor things like facts and performance metrics :p


Grim5 said:
The more Russia loses, the more rewards Ukraine receives

I bet 500k is an aircraft carrier
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If they kill enough Russians they can march to Murmansk and take back the Admiral Kuznetsov :D
 
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ubersonic said:
Waste of time/effort, the Ukrainians already have the Su-25 which is essentially a better A-10 so it would be better to instead convince other ex-SSRs to send theirs. But the problem is that Ukraine can't use their Su-25 effectively anyway as they lack the air superiority to deploy them properly.

The A-10 is a plane that's spent the last 40+ years living off a manufactured hype, it was sold to politicians and the military with the idea that if WW3 kicked off it would lay waste to the masses of Soviet tanks streaming into western Europe and that's what many still envisage despite it never living up to the hype. I.E in Desert Storm it's now estimated that as much as half the targets originally claimed to have been destroyed by the A-10s (excluding friendly fire incidents) were actually destroyed by the superior F-111 (US equivalent to the Su-24 or Tornado).

The A-10 is a cool plane and will always have a special place in the heart for those who grew up with the hype, but in reality it's only useful when you have air supremacy and the enemy has no anti-air. And in those situations there are other planes you can send that will do the job better.
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One of the big issues with the A-10 is target acquisition and that is fixable with modern electronics. Some of the engagements in the ME it was painful the amount of back and forth communications it took to get them on target and avoiding friendly fire but once on target, especially against massed targets, they are devastating.
 
Rroff said:
One of the big issues with the A-10 is target acquisition and that is fixable with modern electronics. Some of the engagements in the ME it was painful the amount of back and forth communications it took to get them on target and avoiding friendly fire but once on target, especially against massed targets, they are devastating.
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You would think the infantry would use PEQ-15s to highlight their targets? Of course, better equipment on the planes themselves would be great.

Also, the Su-25 looks like garbage so the A-10 is still better.
 
*Founder of Russia’s Wagner Group Prigozhin: Claims Full Control of Bakhmut
*Founder of Russia’s Wagner Group Prigozhin: Wagner Forces Will Start Leaving Bakhmut From May 25, Will Transfer the City to Russian Military
 
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Prigozhin telling Putin the "good news":

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Turn said:
*Founder of Russia’s Wagner Group Prigozhin: Claims Full Control of Bakhmut
*Founder of Russia’s Wagner Group Prigozhin: Wagner Forces Will Start Leaving Bakhmut From May 25, Will Transfer the City to Russian Military
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I bet they can't wait to hand it over to Russian army, it'll likely be hot. Does raise the problem of Russian forces digging in while Wagner are used to assault elsewhere potentially being a thorn for a Ukrainian counter-attack.
 

US helping Ukraine get F-16s shows that for military aid, 'no' can become 'yes' | The Times of Israel

www.timesofisrael.com www.timesofisrael.com

Thought this might be if interest in case people were wondering how long it could take to train pilots:

The F-16 approval has been a long, slow slog. Despite public insistence — for months — that there was no movement on the F-16s, the Pentagon in March brought two Ukrainian Air Force pilots to the Morris Air National Guard Base in Tucson, Arizona, to familiarize them with the F-16 and learn how pilots are trained.

US officials refused to discuss the event publicly, but privately they said the two pilots flew F-16 simulators and got a feel for the training. The US Air Force, meanwhile, got insight into how long it would take for an experienced Ukrainian fighter pilot to learn the F-16’s more advanced systems. Officials determined that realistically it could be done in about four months, if the pilots were already trained to fly their own Soviet-era fighters.
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Rroff said:
I bet they can't wait to hand it over to Russian army, it'll likely be hot. Does raise the problem of Russian forces digging in while Wagner are used to assault elsewhere potentially being a thorn for a Ukrainian counter-attack.
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Only if Ukraine is running low on 155mm shells. Wagner seem to enjoy less tactical smarts than seen in a post-pub paintball game.
 
Turn said:
*Founder of Russia’s Wagner Group Prigozhin: Claims Full Control of Bakhmut
*Founder of Russia’s Wagner Group Prigozhin: Wagner Forces Will Start Leaving Bakhmut From May 25, Will Transfer the City to Russian Military
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*Ukraine’s Spokesperson for Military East Command Denies Russia’s Wagner Has Taken Full Control of Bakhmut
*Ukrainian Troops Continue Fighting in Bakhmut - Spokesperson for East Command
*Ukraine’s Deputy DefMin: Heavy Fighting in Bakhmut, ‘Situation is Critical’
 
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They do have a habit of confirming they've taken a thing before they actually have.

Even if successful this has to be the definition of a Pyrrhic victory.
 
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Rroff said:
I bet they can't wait to hand it over to Russian army, it'll likely be hot. Does raise the problem of Russian forces digging in while Wagner are used to assault elsewhere potentially being a thorn for a Ukrainian counter-attack.
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With the flanks slowly collapsing every day getting out of Bakhmut may be a big brain move.

Makes you wonder what Russias next move is in that area. Try and hold Bakhmut and just get endlessly pounded by artillery? There's no rush for Ukraine to push into the area. Or maybe try and push on? But they're losing ground on the flanks.
 
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The Russians don't seem to care how many people they lose, never have, Ukraine I'm sure values its people higher, but will still have lost tens of thousands.
 
So how are Ukraine going to get their new F16s into the air? It's been known for ages that they don't have suitable runways hence why the west was pushing for Grippens instead.

There's no way that they can extend/resurface runways without Russia bombing the crap out of them (only takes one hit to make them unusable).

So that leaves NATO supplied planes flying sorties from NATO countries, probably Finland / Poland, sure the usual lot in here think that escalation is great though.
 
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Concrete said:
So how are Ukraine going to get their new F16s into the air? It's been known for ages that they don't have suitable runways hence why the west was pushing for Grippens instead.

There's no way that they can extend/resurface runways without Russia bombing the crap out of them (only takes one hit to make them unusable).

So that leaves NATO supplied planes flying sorties from NATO countries, probably Finland / Poland, sure the usual loonies in here think that escalation is great though.
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We extended and resurfaced runways within hours during WW2 so I don't see how Ukraine is uniquely incapable of it, plus Russia seems rather busy trying to bomb Kyiv rather than anything tangible.
 
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