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I would also add that Nvidia don’t care what people think. Is it arrogance or complacency, or just condescension towards their forever forgiving fan base. Even now people are falling for the “the more you pay the more you save” crap.
This part is the one I notice the most. I expect that from the general populous who blindly buy from word of mouth, tradition or the influencers; but I expect informed enthusiasts to be more critical and digest when you are being taken for a mug (hardware is badged up a tier, bus width gimped, price hiked to name but a few).
This part is the one I notice the most. I expect that from the general populous who blindly buy from word of mouth, tradition or the influencers; but I expect informed enthusiasts to be more critical and digest when you are being taken for a mug (hardware is badged up a tier, bus width gimped, price hiked to name but a few).
It never works like that though. Even when AMD have a superior product people will forgive Nvidia and buy their products. In fact so many only want AMD to compete so they can get their Nvidia GPU cheaper.
No matter how many times Jensen dry hump’s them, they come back for more. Even the so called informed enthusiasts fall for it over and over.
The sign of a poor loser. Never responds to valid and objective points being made, just keeps moving the goalposts so they don’t have to admit they are wrong.
Not once did you or Joxeon even concede that the worse exchange rate and UK inflation are a factors in pricing.
The exchange rate is like a 5 cents difference than it was was when the 6800XT launched so a £25 difference.
UK inflation has nothing to do with GPU prices as they are manufactured in the far east where inflation has increased by like 2% in 3 years, besides a lot of other pc parts have seen deflation lately especially memory which incidentally all gpus use, supposedly the cost of 8gb of GDDR6 has dropped from $100 to under $25 so that alone would have meant the memory allocation costs for a 7900XT around $62 compared to $200 for a 6800XT.
The exchange rate is like a 5 cents difference than it was was when the 6800XT launched so a £25 difference.
UK inflation has nothing to do with GPU prices as they are manufactured in the far east where inflation has increased by like 2% in 3 years, besides a lot of other pc parts have seen deflation lately especially memory which incidentally all gpus use, supposedly the cost of 8gb of GDDR6 has dropped from $100 to under $25 so that alone would have meant the memory allocation costs for a 7900XT around $62 compared to $200 for a 6800XT.
The pound was worth about 1.33 USD in Nov 2020 (6800 XT launch). It was worth about about 1.21 in Dec 2022 (7900 XT launch). That’s roughly an 8% drop in the value of the pound and inflation here does impact costs regardless of origin. Or do you think UK business overheads, shipping, profits and running costs are exempt from inflation and calculated in dollars?
Realistically the combined impact of both would account for 10% - 15% of the extra costs on the 7900 XT. Or about £60 - £100 extra.
Hence my point that the 7900 XT with the Starfield code is roughly at the price it should have been as the 6800 XT replacement. It costs roughly the same with the above considerations for exchange rates and is ~40% faster.
The RX7900XT in performance against the RX7900XTX is actually lower down the stack than the RX6800XT against the RX6900XT. The RX6800XT was less gimped compared to the RX6900XT and much closer in performance,than the RX7900XT is compared to the RX7900XTX.
Its more something between an RX7800 and RX7800XT:
If you're going to quote me don't do it out of context. Adjusted for inflation a November 2020 6800XT would cost £872, the 7900XT is £725. Stuffs more expensive... Possibly the 7900xt might be considered a bargain now the 6800xt has been adjusted for inflation.
Review from May this year. RX7900XTX reference is 19% faster than a reference RX7900XT! The reference RX6900XT is 7% faster than an RX6800XT. The RX6900XT is 23% faster than the RX6800.
I would argue its closer to an RX7800. The RX6800 RRP is $579. Even taking US inflation into consideration,that is $680 today. With UK VAT,that is £650. With Chinese inflation its even lower(where the cards are made).
The big problem is people have fallen sucessfully for Nvidia jacking up the pricing,and then AMD sort of following in line. AMD looks the lesser of two evils but they are both trying it on. The fact the RX7900XT was priced at $900 and not called an RX7800XT or RX7800 is an indication of what AMD intended to do. It's just what Nvidia is doing even worse especially as they barely have reduced Ampere pricing until recently.
In absolute terms its still a poor generation. Especially if the RX7800XT is using Navi 32. Nvidia is doing the same upsell with the RTX4070.
The exchange rate is like a 5 cents difference than it was was when the 6800XT launched so a £25 difference.
UK inflation has nothing to do with GPU prices as they are manufactured in the far east where inflation has increased by like 2% in 3 years, besides a lot of other pc parts have seen deflation lately especially memory which incidentally all gpus use, supposedly the cost of 8gb of GDDR6 has dropped from $100 to under $25 so that alone would have meant the memory allocation costs for a 7900XT around $62 compared to $200 for a 6800XT.
Exactly. This was with node shortages,GDDR6 shortages,shipping costing a lot and China and Taiwan locked down.The RTX3000/RX6000 series RRPs were with this all factored in.
To show how much AMD is copying Nvidia,just look at the RX7800XT? It apparently has a Navi 32 die now. Navi 22 was the chip in the RX6700XT.
They have pushed up the whole tier by one now. So:
1.)RX7900XTX=RX6900XT/RX6950XT
2.)RX7900XT=RX6800XT/RX6800
3.)RX7900GRE=RX6800LE
4.)RX7800XT=RX6700XT
5.)RX7700XT=RX6700(?)
Nvidia:
1.)RTX4090= RTX3080~RTX3080TI 12GB(in terms of how much of the chip is enabled) with the memory config of an RTX3090/RTX3090TI
2.)RTX4080=RTX3070/RTX3070TI
3.)RTX4070TI=RTX3070/RTX3060TI
4.)RTX4070=RTX3060TI/RTX3060
5.)RTX4060TI=RTX3050/RTX3050TI
6.)RTX4060=RTX3050/RTX3040
AMD is not as bad,but the problem its a disaster as you go down the stack.
Graphics card sales have collapsed because people are not seeing value in most of the range.
A lot of the mainstream dGPUs such as the RTX3050/RTX3060/RX6600XT/RX6700XT were poorly priced in 2021. The reviews were uniformly poor because of the pricing and poor performance:
Look at where the RX5700/RX5700XT/RTX2070/RTX2060 Super were. The RTX3050/RTX3060/RX6600XT/RX6700XT barely moved price/performance forward because they were priced with mining in mind. The RX6700XT was the only true upgrade over the earlier dGPUs in performance AND VRAM but the RRP and street pricing were too high in the UK. The RTX3060TI at RRP was the only decent value mainstream dGPU IF you could get one at RRP.
So the current pricing is in many ways around where they should have been at launch if we expected decent performance improvements per generation. At least AMD can be commended for dropping prices,but Nvidia is still taking the mickey.
Why does AMD care? The RX7800XT is apparently using Navi 32,so instead of a great RX6700XT replacement we get it resold as an RX6800XT replacement,with a much smaller total chip area.Sound familiar? Oh yes,the RTX4070 which should have been the RTX4060TI at the very least.
With the RX6800XT having 20% more CUs,it means it will have to be clocked high to beat it. But don't worry it will be priced at £550,so will be £30 cheaper than an RTX4070,cheaper than the RX6800XT with some extra VRAM,5% faster rasterised performance,worse RT,etc. Job done.Technically better than the RTX4070,right? Big win. Except we had a 100+ page thread on here,where many on here were critical of the RTX4070. Pay 60% more than an RTX3060TI to get 40% more performance.
But then that means the RX7700XT,might end up being not much of an upgrade either. But it will be 5% faster than an RTX4060TI,have more VRAM and worse RT. Technically better. Big win.
I like to be wrong,but have zero confidence in AMD marketing/market research existing in the real world. Maybe they are hoping for 10% marketshare,even when Nvidia is apparently cutting production and giving them a huge chance. I expect AMD will just allow increases in prices,hence why there is no "official" price cut for the RX7900XT.If the Nvidia dGPUs become harder to get,AMD will just be quite happy to repeat what they did during the Pandemic.
Then people wonder why most of the Steam top 10 dGPUs are barely moving forward past consoles,three years later.
Have you cried a river in the past when Nvidia pulled the Game works scheme? After all, AMD users only were affected and that was a minority. Or maybe they should push RT heavily and Path Tracing in games, only allowing DLSS. Should be easy enough considering AMD is only a blimp on the radar. Nevermind they'll beburying them into the ground. For sure all users will win from this!
It never works like that though. Even when AMD have a superior product people will forgive Nvidia and buy their products. In fact so many only want AMD to compete so they can get their Nvidia GPU cheaper.
No matter how many times Jensen dry hump’s them, they come back for more. Even the so called informed enthusiasts fall for it over and over.
Hear that @humbug , better leave Nvidia side and actually put your money where your apparent allegiance is.
Joke aside, they won't turn around things in one gen. It has to be a sustained effort over multiple generations. They didn't took all back just with Ryzen 1 for instance.
You are just making up nonsense now. The MSRP cost of a new 6800 XT or any GPU back in 2020 - 2021 was pie in the sky. It was normal for these GPUs to be sold for £1k at times.
You think the 7900 XT is overpriced and should be a £600 max GPU. I explained why it wasn’t once we consider exchange rates etc. Your constant moving of the goal posts are childish and laughable now.
OK, at least your red line on pricing is more realistic than Joxeon’s. Even if there is still a slightly, “old man shouts at cloud” vibe to it.
The 3080 was £650 MSRP (if you could get one). 15% extra for inflation and weaker pound and you have a UK price of £760ish max in late 2022. Yeah £700 at current exchange rates is at least not insane
Why does AMD care? The RX7800XT is apparently using Navi 32,so instead of a great RX6700XT replacement we get it resold as an RX6800XT replacement,with a much smaller total chip area.Sound familiar? Oh yes,the RTX4070 which should have been the RTX4060TI at the very least.
With the RX6800XT having 20% more CUs,it means it will have to be clocked high to beat it. But don't worry it will be priced at £550,so will be £30 cheaper than an RTX4070,cheaper than the RX6800XT with some extra VRAM,5% faster rasterised performance,worse RT,etc. Job done.Technically better than the RTX4070,right? Big win. Except we had a 100+ page thread on here,where many on here were critical of the RTX4070. Pay 60% more than an RTX3060TI to get 40% more performance.
But then that means the RX7700XT,might end up being not much of an upgrade either. But it will be 5% faster than an RTX4060TI,have more VRAM and worse RT. Technically better. Big win.
I like to be wrong,but have zero confidence in AMD marketing/market research existing in the real world. Maybe they are hoping for 10% marketshare,even when Nvidia is apparently cutting production and giving them a huge chance. I expect AMD will just allow increases in prices,hence why there is no "official" price cut for the RX7900XT.If the Nvidia dGPUs become harder to get,AMD will just be quite happy to repeat what they did during the Pandemic.
Then people wonder why most of the Steam top 10 dGPUs are barely moving forward past consoles,three years later.
You are just making up nonsense now. The MSRP cost of a new 6800 XT or any GPU back in 2020 - 2021 was pie in the sky. It was normal for these GPUs to be sold for £1k at times.
You think the 7900 XT is overpriced and should be a £600 max GPU. I explained why it wasn’t once we consider exchange rates etc. Your constant moving of the goal posts are childish and laughable now.
The point is AMD and especially Nvidia saw people buy at those prices and pushed prices up for their next gen prices.
AMD prices are starting to normalise and they pushed their entire stack up one tier. Nvidia pushed theirs up two and even the tech press and consumers had to cry foul over the 4080 12GB and all they did was rename it at as a 4070Ti and drop the price $100.
I think AMD and especially Nvidia have reached the found out part on the FAFO scale. AMD seem to be dropping prices stealthily but as is typical for Nvidia, the arrogance and disdain for their customers knows know bounds.
OK, at least your red line on pricing is more realistic than Joxeon’s. Even if there is still a slightly, “old man shouts at cloud” vibe to it.
The 3080 was £650 MSRP (if you could get one). 15% extra for inflation and weaker pound and you have a UK price of £760ish max in late 2022. Yeah £700 at current exchange rates is at least not insane
Don’t quote me but I think he means £700 for the 7900XTX/4080 and considering the 4080 has a BoM cost off around $350 while AMD supposedly switched to a chiplet design to cut costs even further then that’s probably about right.
It never works like that though. Even when AMD have a superior product people will forgive Nvidia and buy their products. In fact so many only want AMD to compete so they can get their Nvidia GPU cheaper.
Having been active here for coming up to two decades I agree. When its mentioned though you get many a twisted response generally confirming why the brand is so popular.
The point is AMD and especially Nvidia saw people buy at those prices and pushed prices up for their next gen prices.
AMD prices are starting to normalise and they pushed their entire stack up one tier. Nvidia pushed theirs up two and even the tech press and consumers had to cry foul over the 4080 12GB and all they did was rename it at as a 4070Ti and drop the price $100.
I think AMD and especially Nvidia have reached the found out part on the FAFO scale. AMD seem to be dropping prices stealthily but as is typical for Nvidia, the arrogance and disdain for their customers knows know bounds.
The RX 7700 has 48 CU's, 18GB/s memory IC's and probably about 2700Mhz on the clock.
Vs the 6700XT that's 20% more CU's, 12% faster memory and 5% higher clocks, its going to be 20% faster.
At 1440P on this chart that puts it 15% ahead of the 4060Ti, about = to an RX 6800. Or about 45% ahead of an RTX 2070S
With US inflation the 6700XT would be $540 today, $90 less than that and 20% faster, its not bad, the 4060Ti which should have been a 12GB and nothing else is $500 is 16GB form, its 10% faster than the 3060Ti and $100 more expensive, how is that not the argument in this thread?
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