Does something need to be done about dogs?
- Thread starter Dis86
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Associate
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The average XL-bully owner is, well you can probably guess the kind of adjective that I am thinking of to describe them. I have no issue with upsetting that type of person to make our communities saver.
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Associate
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It is a factor of both owner and breed. Neither dog nor owner is the problem in isolation. Therefore it is rather naive in my mind to absolve dog breeds of any blame in this.
A pondlife dog owner with a Yorkie Terrier is not likely to cause many problems
A wonderful dog owner with a Bully XL is not likely to cause many problems
If we can limit pondlife dog owners to smaller breeds then we can start to reduce the number of injuries suffered. The reality is however that to achieve this we need to blanket ban the likes of the Bully XL as it will not be practical to police who owns them.
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The only decent owner of one I have met had a rescue dog that had been removed from a suitable adjective.
I've seen some little monsters come in Yorkshire Terrier form. Classic little spoilt tiny dog that gets away with everything because it's "cute".
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Oh yeah I know. Lots round here like that.
Had one today. An overly aggressive staffy (one of the chunky ones) came up to my boy (mine on lead, this one off). Koda was so. Submissive he rolled over. It didn't get nasty.. But it was overly aggressive play for my boy. The owner quickly leaded his dog. But if it had been a bully xl.. Could have been bad.
Things like this are why I would agree with compulsory courses for dog ownership. Just because someone knows their dog is friendly, and that it's only playing, people let them off the lead in busy places. Another dog that is kept on a lead doesn't necessarily want to play at all, let alone more boisterously and that can cause problems.
Suggesting people keep their dogs on their leads at all times for general walking just gets you a mouthful back a lot of the time.
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Soldato
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That's annoying and Its a shame some people don't follow the lead etiquette. If approaching another dog that is on a lead then put your dog on a lead...unfortunately some people just don't give a crap.
Sad that it's becoming more and more the norm. With everything.
Dog helped saved a life (not forgetting the countless dogs helping the police, helping search and rescue, etc) :
www.bbc.co.uk
Dog saved woman from man hired by ex to kill her at Hitchin flat
Tracy Devonshire was saved after her dog growled at Trefor Jones, a court hears.
www.bbc.co.uk
Man arrested after girl, 3, attacked by dog outside pub
f7td5.app.goo.gl
Aaaaand another one.
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Aaaaand another one.
It wasn't too bad. We were around a corner. And maybe that dog just plays like that. But it fell into the "uncomfortable" for me
Soldato
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Dog helped saved a life (not forgetting the countless dogs helping the police, helping search and rescue, etc) :
Dog saved woman from man hired by ex to kill her at Hitchin flat
Tracy Devonshire was saved after her dog growled at Trefor Jones, a court hears.
I was about to post this. This is a story about a dog saving somebody's life, and nice name for a dog too - Princess.
Injured 48 sheep and killed 22, that's nuts.
I mean, for 2x dogs to do that much damage to livestock until they're shot on sight - that's almost unheard of isn't it?
Dogs do sometimes kill multiple sheep (which is why farmers are legally allowed to shoot out-of-control dogs off lead on their land and have done so before XL Bullys existed), but yeah killing 22 in one go and injuring another 48 seems pretty extreme!
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Edit just doing a quick search and I found these:
Two German Shepherds and a Rottweiler attacked 9 sheep; 1 killed by them + another 4 put down + 4 with injured.
Farmer shoots dog dead after sheep slaughtered in Banstead
A farmer was forced to shoot dead a rottweiler after it killed six of his sheep. Two German shepherds and a Rottweiler savaged nine sheep in the…
www.yourlocalguardian.co.uk
Alsatian + Akita Cross together killed 6 sheep:
Farmer shoots millionaire's dogs after sheep attack and delivers dead bodies back to owner
Frank Langrish shot dead two of millionaire David Kowitz's dogs after they attacked and killed his sheep.
This one is reported as the worst incident ever with 30 sheep killed but the dog/dogs is/are unknown:
Loose dog kills almost 30 sheep in 'worst ever' livestock attack
Police are urgently appealing for witnesses after an out-of-control dog massacred almost thirty sheep on a field in Kent.
So 22 killed is definitely an extreme event.
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Man arrested after girl, 3, attacked by dog outside pub
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Aaaaand another one.
Yup, the dog of peace strikes again... for the 326th time this year. I'm sure the task master will be back to tell us all that breed doesn't matter.
tore a chunk off the little girl's face... that's going to have an impact on her for the rest of her life. Still haven't heard any good reason why these dogs should be allowed to exist, the breed was only artificially created a few years ago we can just uncreate it!
Soldato
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Genes do, breed does not.
This difference is what's explained in detail in the studies linked.
Those are behaviours typically associated with certain breeds, because so many examples have been strongly bred to exhibit those traits. They're what define the breed standard and are the ones who win at Crufts.
But you'll find plenty examples of almost every breed where individuals do not conform to breed standard at all.
Breed is merely a generalisation and a stereotype of an ideal, not a rigid specification.
The AKC Breed Standard:
"The Japanese Akitainu is an alert, independent, dignified, and self-confident breed. They are loyal and protective of their family members. They can be reserved and aloof around non-family members, especially strangers, and some may" be intolerant of other dogs, particularly dogs of the same sex".
Owner reports suggest it's somewhat unlikely, but still variable depending upon their specific genetics and lineage, your breeder and your own leadership as their owner. Certainly there are a number who report no real issues with such behaviour.
High tolerance, but not without limit, as shown by the US stats of 3 kills and 38 attacks 2014-2020.
You mean your study (which you appear not to have actually read) that not only supports my assertion, but is cited in several of the other studies (which you clearly didn't read) that also support the same assertion?
Go learn what heritability actually means.
A breed will have some individuals with shared elements of lineage, but there are many different bloodlines within a recognised breed and you'd have to go back many generations to find directly shared ancestors. Pedigree certification usually requires 5 generations (about 60 years) but many go as far back as 10 generations.
The differences between breeds appear more pronounced because studies focus on dogs that are typical of breed standard, rather than encompassing the breed as a whole.
Again, generalisation of stereotypes. Breed is just what the officially recognised ideal example of a dog is, not a stipulation of it's existence.
You serious?
Border Collies are highly intelligent and highly trainable herding dogs which, in the wrong hands, end up as distressed, frustrated, murderous psychopaths... they will attack ducks, kittens, pigs, sheep, cows and even dog control officers.
Plenty of news articles on those...
"But the worst attack, which took place in April 2016, saw 66 lambs killed and 19 ewes in a single field by two loose Labradors one night".
UK cost of dog attacks up by 50% since pre-pandemic
As people prepare to flock to the countryside this Easter, NFU Mutual is urging all dog owners in the East of England to keep their pet on a lead wherever livestock may be nearby.
www.nfumutual.co.uk
Labrador breed standard says, "Intelligent, keen and biddable, with a strong will to please. Kindly nature, with no trace of aggression or undue shyness".....
Clearly breed is everything......
@Screeeech there we go, the same confusion again.
@ttaskmaster dogs of the same breed are genetically similar, can you not see the error here in your claim? Genes impact both physical and behavioural traits, there is a study already linked to showing that various behavioural traits are heritable that study compares breeds and directly contradicts your claim.
And there's the misunderstanding again, you think it's monocausal and so you assume others pointing out that another factor is important are making a monocausal argument too.
That would be really dumb, in reality, there are bad owners and there are breeds that very obviously pose a higher risk than others.
I don't understand,
So you're saying the genes are independent from the breed?? How does that work? the genes define everything about the breed, from the moment it's born... Genes impact everything about the animal - yes it can be trained to do certain things give or take, but there are always going to be baseline differences.
This is why a border collie (smartest dog) will always be better than an Afghan Hound (dumbest dog) at herding sheep and obeying commands, they're different breeds with different genes and they behave in totally different ways, they'be been designed by artificial selection to behave and act in different ways.
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Soldato
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Genetically similar does not mean they will be the same. How do you not understand this?
Everyone on this forum is "genetically similar" and certainly of the same breed (human), but I bet you every ******* penny on the planet that there will be stark differences in our behaviours.
This is due to different genes, different family lineages and different environmental influences, both within and between breeds, as explained in every study linked INCLUDING THE ONE YOU KEEP BANGING ON ABOUT.
Not at all, I'm quite blatantly taking the **** out of your assertion that "breed" is a factor in the first place.
So are scientists.
Read this:
Your dog's genes, but not necessarily its breed, play a big role in its behavior
Humans began selectively breeding dogs around 2,000 years ago, and these genes play a role in your pup's behavior, a new study of 4,000 purebred, mixed-breed and wild dogs finds.
www.livescience.com
Or this, if you prefer:
And if your dog does not carry the herding gene, it will be a crap shepherd regardless of its breed.
At any one time there are about a dozen Border Collies in the dedicated rehoming centre just down the road from me, all of whom have been found utterly useless at herding sheep, and there are several dozen such centres around the UK all full of Border Collies who failed at shepherding. A well-trained Afghan likely would thrash them in a shepherding assessment.
Breed does not define behaviour. It merely gives you a likelihood of how they 'might' behave based on generalised expectations of a stereotype.