Net zero could push energy bills up by £120 a year

[adam cool dude]

And what do you propose will replace EVs?

The same thing that replaced the mini disc. The scrap yard.

Won't help with air pollution tho will it.

EVs replacing ICEs have multiple benefits. Not giving kids asthma is one of them.

Air pollution isn't a problem anywhere apart from cities where the focus should be on public transport not moving people into another form or pollution.

 

[martin363]

Unlike some green issues, who cares what other countries do when it comes to EVs? EVs deliver cleaner air in our cities and offer the chance of greater energy independence. It’s a no-brainer even if other countries don’t follow.

Perhaps, yes, but EV development will always be restricted or fail to be fully potentialised whilst a sizeable part of the global market ignores it.

This is why owning an EV for many people is not sensible at the moment, and may not be for a while in the future. Initial price, insurance, charging network, range, convienence, plus there is no network for delivery of cheap replacement batteries, or effective battery disposal. etc. (My daughter who works in Energy law tells me this is the next big scandal re. EV's).

I appreciate for some the benefits are already there, but an industry which can still sell petrol elsewhere in numbers will never develop EV Technology as fast as it could to the benefit of the UK consumer..

 

[doodah]

We all know any way but why should voters, governments, businesses believe a word the UK government says? They'll renege, break international law, do any say anything to get a few votes and all of this wrapped up in spades of incompetence.

Why must we keep making fools of ourselves? They're not pro business. They're not delivering for the British people. They're not pro farming. They look after themselves and their friends, that's it.

 

[SDK^]

Air pollution isn't a problem anywhere apart from cities where the focus should be on public transport not moving people into another form or pollution.

I suggest you get outside - do a run or bike ride anywhere near a road [with some use] and you'll find the air quality is *sick* !
School pickups also - parents/careers keeping their cars running to keep warm/cool for 10+ minutes whilst they wait for their kids to come out of school. [Multiplied by all the schools in the country!]

In terms of change - what's easier, ask people to switch to an EV, or ask people to purely use public transport ?!
If tomorrow you were asked to give up your ICE car for an EV, or only use public transport, which are you choosing?

 

[adam cool dude]

I suggest you get outside - do a run or bike ride anywhere near a road [with some use] and you'll find the air quality is *sick* !
School pickups also - parents/careers keeping their cars running to keep warm/cool for 10+ minutes whilst they wait for their kids to come out of school. [Multiplied by all the schools in the country!]

In terms of change - what's easier, ask people to switch to an EV, or ask people to purely use public transport ?!
If tomorrow you were asked to give up your ICE car for an EV, or only use public transport, which are you choosing?

I live in the countryside so what you describe to me doesn't exist.

If tomorrow I were asked to give up my ICE to use EV or public transport that is the day I emigrate.

 

[CapitalOne]

I live in the countryside so what you describe to me doesn't exist.

If tomorrow I were asked to give up my ICE to use EV or public transport that is the day I emigrate.

Sometimes I just wonder if I'm not normal...

I don't mind cars, even had and have a few nice ones. I'd even go as far as saying we always enjoy a decent drive and a even "a bit of a burn". If it doesn't go "bruuum" though I don't really care. Emigrate......really? Is that the straw that broke you and nothing esle in this country?

 

[SDK^]

I live in the countryside so what you describe to me doesn't exist.

If tomorrow I were asked to give up my ICE to use EV or public transport that is the day I emigrate.

So you want everyone else to use public transport, but if that was asked of you , then you'd leave the country - nice
Also, you live in the countryside - there are no schools in countrysides, or roads which are used by vehicles

I used to ride 100 miles a week, mostly through countrysides and I know there is road traffic pollution and also schools !

 

[jpaul]

[
from ulez discussion air pollution is worst on the deepest tube tunnels - edge of the road is pretty good

Tube pollution looks like you need to select your tfl underground line carefully 25x more pm2.5 on victoria line, vs roadside

]

Maybe Rishi will also announce monetary incentives for private ev buyer, something complimentary to BIK, or start conversation on road taxing .... a heads up on the manifesto.
By 2030, price of petrol alone, will suredly increase ICE running cost compared to EV

 

[Caracus2k]

Rishi Sunak considers weakening key green policies

Plans could include delaying a ban on sales of new petrol cars and the phasing out of gas boilers.

www.bbc.co.uk

Good to see the UK flip-flopping and taking aim at its own feet.

Would the last person to choke to death on smog, burn to death in a heatwave, or get drowned in a flood, please turn out the lights.

The 2030/ 2035 targets are madness.

A goal set with no actual plan put in place to have anything like the necessary infrastructure in place to deliver it. In large point because the goals aren't feasible with the technology to hand and the timescales set

The talk of us dying of smog, heat and floods is hyperbolic nonsence. Age adjusted* deaths due to the climate and pollution, as absolute numbers never mind as a % of the world population have been trending downwards for decades.

(* there's little point saying more people are dying of 'x' of they are dying at an older average age than previous cohorts of people for the same issue - ie classic example cancer - headlines about more people being diagnosed and dieing of cancer but this is in part because life expectancy jad increased as had screening for that matter)

We are sleep walking into an entirely predictable catastrophe of rolling blackouts and an industrial/ societal collapse due to power insecurity that will make todays economic woes look like childsplay.

And all of this will do very little to avert climate change/ degradation.

No good worrying about this stuff when the social order starts to completely disintegrate as a result of the madcap 'solutions' employed.

 

[Caracus2k]

Sunak can push back the petrol ban as much as he likes, but manufacturers are already deep in the transition to EV and have already, or will be about to be, geared all their manufacturing towards EVs. Most have already got timelines of selling no ICE cars from way before 2030. They will not change that for a corrupt, verge-of-bankrupt nation like us

Most of them are losing money on every expensive EV they sell and Tesla only made a profit it recent years due to selling credits to other car makers for the non existent ICE cars Tesla doesn't make.

Used EV prices are crumbling screwing the major buyers of them - fleets and PCP companies. Its a house of cards primed to collapse.

BEV's are and will remain for a while longer an expensive niche product that is a poor fit for for many use cases.

They are almost impossible to repair in many cases after even mild accidents and a ticking reliability time bomb due to their even more complex electrical systems vs modern (and already troublesome ICE cars).

 

[jigger]

Net zero for £120 PA is a bargain price. Happy to pay.

 

[bigmike20vt]

all of this however is ignoring the biggest problem of this uturn however.

How can anyone ever trust anything the uk government ever say again? time and again they over promise and under deliver.... usually it is just screwing over small businesses and its actual populace but this net zero back tracking is there for the whole world to see.

internationally we will be an untrustworthly laughing stock - tho arguably we are already imo.


but what about the companies who HAVE grabbed the nettle and taken a short term hit to gain an advantage over the companies who did nothing? rather than being rewarded for actually taking the government at their word and making the tough calls they get punished.

 

[Lean]

You people cant be that gullible to think its only going to cost £120pa. Come on.

 

[Tom_ed1987]

Net zero for £120 PA is a bargain price. Happy to pay.

You think net zero can realistically be achieved with a net cost to the average citizen of only £120pa?

I' estimate at least 30x that.

 

[Efour]

Net zero for £120 PA is a bargain price. Happy to pay.

yeah thats a good price id pay it for sure.

 

[bigmike20vt]

You people cant be that gullible to think its only going to cost £120pa. Come on.

its just in response to the telegraph claims.... that was the number they put out there.

 

[adam cool dude]

You think net zero can realistically be achieved with a net cost to the average citizen of only £120pa?

I' estimate at least 30x that.

It is a silly figure. HS2 is costing each tax payer 2-3k. The cost to change every forecourt to EV, every home to EV and then building enough nuclear power stations to supply those needs would make HS2 look like pocket change.

If this happened in the 90's when we actually had money then it might be feasible but when all the councils and country are flat out broke not a chance in hell.

 

[FoxEye]

The talk of us dying of smog, heat and floods is hyperbolic nonsence. Age adjusted* deaths due to the climate and pollution, as absolute numbers never mind as a % of the world population have been trending downwards for decades.

Yeah, there's absolutely no evidence that extreme weather events are becoming more commonplace. You got me there.

Nothing in the news or anything. I made it up, sorry.

No good worrying about this stuff when the social order starts to completely disintegrate as a result of the madcap 'solutions' employed.

This is exactly Sunak's message. Let's not not worry about major climate catastrophe. We can't afford to fix the problem, so long as it costs any amount of money that some people might object to. Future generations can do something. Other countries can do something.

Lastly, shall we remind ourselves that we're paying £1,400+ per person on HS2. Helping to avert a climate catastrophe has got to be worth at least that amount, surely..?

 

[Hagar]

Plus EV's are too damn quiet. They should have a scrapman type announcer but instead of "any old iron" it should be "watch out an EV's about". Every 200 yards or so.

 

[adam cool dude]

Most of them are losing money on every expensive EV they sell and Tesla only made a profit it recent years due to selling credits to other car makers for the non existent ICE cars Tesla doesn't make.

Used EV prices are crumbling screwing the major buyers of them - fleets and PCP companies. Its a house of cards primed to collapse.

BEV's are and will remain for a while longer an expensive niche product that is a poor fit for for many use cases.

They are almost impossible to repair in many cases after even mild accidents and a ticking reliability time bomb due to their even more complex electrical systems vs modern (and already troublesome ICE cars).

Yeah it is a lose lose situation for the car makers. Not due to the EV's fault but the problem with the technology constantly evolving at a rapid pace unlike ICE which has been matured for a good 20-30 years.

Take the Electric mini. new one has been announced which is a big improvement over the old which is only two years old itself and values are already poor at around 40% after only two years which is horrid. Automakers then have to charge stupid amounts for PCP which means no one buys them or sell them at a loss plus those who chucked plenty of good money at an EV that wants an upgrade now realises their car is worth nothing and their replacement EV will go the same way due to the constant rapid evolution.