Don't get me wrong, a 5 to 6 hour bike ride and I'll be very hungry that afternoon. It's the shorter ones, maybe with some sprints in that can actually seem to suppress it. I often think just keeping myself busy is the best thing. Finish work at 5 and I often can't make it past 5:30 and I want to eat, so I have dinner. Then I'm getting hungry again around 8pm. If I go for a ride, by the time I'm showered and such, it's maybe 7/7:15 and maybe I'm not that hungry, so sometimes I wait and eat closer to 8 which means I can get away with eating less before bed as I'm not as hungry.
*** Big Fat Weight Loss Thread ***
- Thread starter AndyCr15
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I use MyFitnessPal to track what I'm eating and just use my Apple Watch to track calorie use. I don't care that it's not massively accurate as I don't deduct the exercise from what I'm consuming. I just feel comfortable that the exercise gives me a calorie buffer each day. I'm aiming for 2,100 and nearly always overshoot to 2,300-2,400. So the exercise hopefully offsets that a bit!
I was lighter today than I was last week, but I'm recording daily now (when I'm home) so it has really been up and down. Depends massively on when you poo too.
Most days it's about 75-90 minutes on the bike, throwing a few weights around, and later on in the day a 30-60 minute walk (which I don't really think of as 'proper' exercise TBH). Just looked at Garmin's activity history for the last year and it's averaging over 1400 active calories/day, and that includes days off, holidays, etc.
I know it's not exactly normal, but I feel better for it both physically and mentally.
Well done, that's huge.
Mind you, checking my Whoop it says in September I did 50½ hours, so about 1:40 a day on average, which is much more than I thought it would be... but then I guess I cycle between 8 and 10 hours each weekend, which in itself puts the average over an hour a day. (Although I see August was just under 30 hours)
Mind you, checking my Whoop it says in September I did 50½ hours, so about 1:40 a day on average, which is much more than I thought it would be... but then I guess I cycle between 8 and 10 hours each weekend, which in itself puts the average over an hour a day. (Although I see August was just under 30 hours)
I literally had to get the kitchen scales out and weight my meals out to understand the calories in more detail. I was underestimating calories and having much larger portions before. Whilst I'm not weighing everything at the moment, I did it for long enough to be able to more accurately estimate amounts and stick to my goal weight.
In positive news I have managed to wear a pair of 34" waist trousers all day today without ripping the arse out of them! Not sure when the last time I wore 34" waist, but I don't think I'll have been an adult!
In positive news I have managed to wear a pair of 34" waist trousers all day today without ripping the arse out of them! Not sure when the last time I wore 34" waist, but I don't think I'll have been an adult!
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I just got a new coat as the weathers getting colder and my old ones are tents. Have gone from an XXL to a small!
Just had this recent study pop up on my recommended, guess google saw our conversation of fat loss with cardio versus weights the other day.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
It found that strength training alone was more effective at reducing body fat than aerobic alone or a combination of aerobic/weight training. There was no significant difference in fat loss between the aerobic and aerobic/weight combined groups.
Caveat - it's on people with type 2 diabetes but it reinforces my personal experience of greater fat loss (not necessarily weight loss) with weights over cardio in both myself and my wife.
Strength training is more effective than aerobic exercise for improving glycaemic control and body composition in people with normal-weight type 2 diabetes: a randomised controlled trial - PubMed
This study was funded by the National Institutes of Health (NIH; R01DK081371).
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
It found that strength training alone was more effective at reducing body fat than aerobic alone or a combination of aerobic/weight training. There was no significant difference in fat loss between the aerobic and aerobic/weight combined groups.
Caveat - it's on people with type 2 diabetes but it reinforces my personal experience of greater fat loss (not necessarily weight loss) with weights over cardio in both myself and my wife.
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(It seems quite a specific set of circumstances - "Strength training is more effective than aerobic exercise for improving glycaemic control and body composition in people with normal-weight type 2 diabetes: a randomised controlled trial")
If I lifted instead of cycling, the same amount of time too, yes, I can imagine my body composition might change more. I cycle 8-12 hours a week and rather maintain composition at the moment. I expect if I spent that long lifting, I would put on muscle mass and probably a little (but less) fat.
**EDIT** Actually, I don't know. Right now I'm maintaining weight. I eat around 2,400-2,700 cals a day. How much weightlifting would I need to add, if I stopped cycling do you think, to continue maintaining weight?
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You'll probably find this is a learned response that you can unlearn. Try doing cardio only at a time you can not eat for several hours after and religiously eat nothing during that time. Do that for a few weeks and you'll probably find your body will learn it doesn't get fed after cardio.
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It’s interesting but I think you have to do what you enjoy. For me, weights have not gripped me as much as running has. I’d always skip leg day if I could. Although I don’t mind basic squats and deadlifts. Anything else like lunges can sod off.
Wall of text, apologies, got carried away!
I don't think there is any clear answer here, it's all going to differ based on the individual, we all respond differently. I totally understand you championing cardio as you had a fantastic result from where you were years ago, we can only ever speak to our own experiences. Also if you enioy your riding, keep doing it, the best exercise is what we like.
My own experience, I was going 7-10 hours of cardio a week when I started going to the gym and not really seeing any change in my body. Did I feel better, sure, did my V02 max increase, absolutely so there were good impacts of course. My weight stayed static and my body fat didn't shift a lot. I got to become friends at work with a trainer who happened to go to the same gym and slowly got me around to doing weights I was very resistant at first as I was firmly of the belief, cardio for weight loss, weights for bulking up. I ended up doing 3 straight forward sessions a week of about 30-45 minutes each of the core 5 lifts. It took about 8 weeks to see any difference but my face thinned out, lost the double chin, dropped a few inches around the waist and started getting some comments about looking bigger from friends. I traded 7-10 hours for 2-2.5 hours and got the results i'd been endless chasing with cardio.
Let me say, doing weights meant I put weight on, however my body fat went down quite a bit, I was mid 20's percentage and dropped to mid teens (I skirted 13% at one point for a short while pre-wedding - all checked with caliper measurements). I often bring up the difference in this thread between fat and weight loss, I don't care about weight too much, I do care about how much fat i'm carrying and how I look in the mirror. I gained some decent body weight but I was thinner - looked visibly so when I look back at photos but that's the thing, muscle has more density than fat so you get away with being heavier and looking slimmer with increased lean mass.
Let's move onto my wife, she was a total cardio gym bunny, spent hours upon hours on a variety of machines and again, her body didn't change much. The same friend (we worked in the same place) helped get her onto some simple weights and she got in the best shape she's ever been. She has two photo's she looks back at that she's most proud of her physique, taken a few years apart, one of them she was 58kg when doing cardio, the other she was 64kg doing weights, she looks slimmer and healthier in the heavier picture.
In all i've mentioned above, calorie intake was monitored and mostly adhered to a sensible amount, for both my wife and myself. I naturally ate more when I started lifting as my weight did increase.
Ultimately, as said last week, everyone who cares for longevity and a long healthy life should focus on both, two of the biggest key indicators for living a long life are V02 max and lean body mass.
Totally agree and I won't over eat after a cardio session, I want to, I want to eat all the things but i've fairly good will power (assuming I haven't had a few ciders
) - I monitor my calorie intake daily to ensure right now, i'm eating just below maintenance day to day.
EDIT: Finally, to add, i'm not some extreme exercise addict, I've had long periods over the last 15/20 years where i've done little to be good to myself and put weight back on, some depression spells where I simply didn't care, some times where i've had months of drinking and eating excessively, then had to work damned hard to get back in shape again, i'm just trying to share my experience and things i've learnt along the way and if it helps someone, then it's worth the rambling
Definitely that's why I mentioned the type 2 diabetes straight away, it's a decent range though, 180+ people across a large age range - however this is just one of a few studies i'm starting to see with increasing frequency over the last few years that's pointing to resistance/weight training being better at fat loss over cardio. I shared it today as it popped up on my google feed and our conversation from last week was fresh in my mind.
This is another rabbit hole, there appears to be an upper limit of training before you start to increase your mortality risk - anything up to about 150 minutes a week decreases mortality risk but once you exceed that, the mortality risk starts to rise - i'll try and dig out the study later on. It overlaps with excessive cardio as well, over a certain amount increases mortality risk - basically you're damned if you do, damned if you don't
I don't think there is any clear answer here, it's all going to differ based on the individual, we all respond differently. I totally understand you championing cardio as you had a fantastic result from where you were years ago, we can only ever speak to our own experiences. Also if you enioy your riding, keep doing it, the best exercise is what we like.
My own experience, I was going 7-10 hours of cardio a week when I started going to the gym and not really seeing any change in my body. Did I feel better, sure, did my V02 max increase, absolutely so there were good impacts of course. My weight stayed static and my body fat didn't shift a lot. I got to become friends at work with a trainer who happened to go to the same gym and slowly got me around to doing weights I was very resistant at first as I was firmly of the belief, cardio for weight loss, weights for bulking up. I ended up doing 3 straight forward sessions a week of about 30-45 minutes each of the core 5 lifts. It took about 8 weeks to see any difference but my face thinned out, lost the double chin, dropped a few inches around the waist and started getting some comments about looking bigger from friends. I traded 7-10 hours for 2-2.5 hours and got the results i'd been endless chasing with cardio.
Let me say, doing weights meant I put weight on, however my body fat went down quite a bit, I was mid 20's percentage and dropped to mid teens (I skirted 13% at one point for a short while pre-wedding - all checked with caliper measurements). I often bring up the difference in this thread between fat and weight loss, I don't care about weight too much, I do care about how much fat i'm carrying and how I look in the mirror. I gained some decent body weight but I was thinner - looked visibly so when I look back at photos but that's the thing, muscle has more density than fat so you get away with being heavier and looking slimmer with increased lean mass.
Let's move onto my wife, she was a total cardio gym bunny, spent hours upon hours on a variety of machines and again, her body didn't change much. The same friend (we worked in the same place) helped get her onto some simple weights and she got in the best shape she's ever been. She has two photo's she looks back at that she's most proud of her physique, taken a few years apart, one of them she was 58kg when doing cardio, the other she was 64kg doing weights, she looks slimmer and healthier in the heavier picture.
In all i've mentioned above, calorie intake was monitored and mostly adhered to a sensible amount, for both my wife and myself. I naturally ate more when I started lifting as my weight did increase.
Ultimately, as said last week, everyone who cares for longevity and a long healthy life should focus on both, two of the biggest key indicators for living a long life are V02 max and lean body mass.
Totally agree and I won't over eat after a cardio session, I want to, I want to eat all the things but i've fairly good will power (assuming I haven't had a few ciders
) - I monitor my calorie intake daily to ensure right now, i'm eating just below maintenance day to day.EDIT: Finally, to add, i'm not some extreme exercise addict, I've had long periods over the last 15/20 years where i've done little to be good to myself and put weight back on, some depression spells where I simply didn't care, some times where i've had months of drinking and eating excessively, then had to work damned hard to get back in shape again, i'm just trying to share my experience and things i've learnt along the way and if it helps someone, then it's worth the rambling
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I wonder... your (and wife's) history was cardio, taking up weights was the difference. My history was weights, taking up cardio was the difference... Interesting?
I still can't move past burning 2,000 cals isn't better for weight loss than burning 200 cals. They both have different 'side benefits' of course (which is why I do both).
Tbh, I don't doubt this enough to go looking for studies (and I wouldn't even say I disagree with any of the above either) but... I thought I'd stick it into Google and the top result gave this -
I still can't move past burning 2,000 cals isn't better for weight loss than burning 200 cals. They both have different 'side benefits' of course (which is why I do both).
Tbh, I don't doubt this enough to go looking for studies (and I wouldn't even say I disagree with any of the above either) but... I thought I'd stick it into Google and the top result gave this -
Which is what I would expect it to say.
@AndyCr15 I think we're at an impasse, we both have hard positions here and no amount of discussion from either of us will change the others mind
However, it's good, we'll both be offering different advice to others and it prevents the thread turning into a back slapping echo chamber.
However, it's good, we'll both be offering different advice to others and it prevents the thread turning into a back slapping echo chamber.
And to be clear, as I think/know I've said before, I'm not against lifting. I lift. I don't think one of us is necessarily right or wrong, they are just different approaches and everyone has to find what works for them.
Alright chaps. I started carnivore about 6 weeks ago. Priority was to try to stop psoriasis flare ups but second to lose some weight. The psoriasis side has been really interesting, I have the least psoriasis I have had in the 10 years since it emmerged. It is not 100% gone but may be 90% I had bad nail psoriasis too (generally bash a nail with a weight or something and it goes bad) and they are almost grown out.
Have lost a load of belly fat too, i didn't weigh at beginning but i reckon 3-4kg (now 83kg, at peak when I was massive I was 115kg but I came down years ago by introducing sport and eating differently). My lifts haven't gone down (they are down on a couple of years ago but I was single mindedly lifting and eating a tone during covid)
I had a cheat day last weekend and a homemade pizza and a glass of wine. Didn't have any reaction to it.
Need to try to figure out now what is messing with my skin, suspects being gluten, sugars, processed stuff (although never been big on it other than pizza / pasta flour that type of thing). May be cutting beer and wine
I felt like absolute crap for first 5 days but good since (although some bad moods but a lot of work challenges)
Inflamation is definitely a big thing (I'm 49 soon by the way). Loathed to start reintroducing stuff but feel i should - the idea was elliminate and then reintro
Have lost a load of belly fat too, i didn't weigh at beginning but i reckon 3-4kg (now 83kg, at peak when I was massive I was 115kg but I came down years ago by introducing sport and eating differently). My lifts haven't gone down (they are down on a couple of years ago but I was single mindedly lifting and eating a tone during covid)
I had a cheat day last weekend and a homemade pizza and a glass of wine. Didn't have any reaction to it.
Need to try to figure out now what is messing with my skin, suspects being gluten, sugars, processed stuff (although never been big on it other than pizza / pasta flour that type of thing). May be cutting beer and wine
I felt like absolute crap for first 5 days but good since (although some bad moods but a lot of work challenges)
Inflamation is definitely a big thing (I'm 49 soon by the way). Loathed to start reintroducing stuff but feel i should - the idea was elliminate and then reintro
Outside of fat loss, Keto/Carnivore are excellent for combating inflammation in the body. In your situation where you want to re-introduce foods, i'd pick a single food item and give it a good 1-2 weeks so see how the body reacts then move to the next. It'll take a while but long term it'll definitely be worth it.
Yes, thanks. I am missing vegetables to some degree. I may start there. I did have some carrots the other day in a broth that I could have avoided but felt a bit churlish.
Im still on with my course, 4 weeks on. Finding the workouts easier, well the recovery anyway. Its hard to measure weight loss and im lifting weights every single day mixed with cardio but more weights then ive ever lifted before so when i go on the scales its going down but not as much as id like. Meals are pretty standard, Chicken with a nandos marinade, brocolli, cauli and small amount of cous cous is tomorrows dinner, I have 3 eggs for lunch time.
Ive gone from having 100g of crisps a day (the big bags) to zero, no beer, no sweets, absolutely nothing pastry wise to a healthy diet.
NGL im absolutely loving it. Beats sitting on my arse playing some random garbage anyday.
Ive gone from having 100g of crisps a day (the big bags) to zero, no beer, no sweets, absolutely nothing pastry wise to a healthy diet.
NGL im absolutely loving it. Beats sitting on my arse playing some random garbage anyday.
@omnomnom - the Nando’s hot sauce is really decent calorie wise. We use it quite a bit. Encona hot pepper sauce is also good. I’ve taken to batch preparing chicken breast, brown rice and broccoli lunches for the week and without a variety of excellent hot sauces I’d be bored out of my mind by now! Haven’t died of bowel complications (yet!) after a trial run of my home fermented chilli sauce today. I’d describe it as weird and delicious!