*** Big Fat Weight Loss Thread ***

Don't get me wrong, I know there are benefits, I try and lift twice a week. The other thing cyclists should do is try and run now and then. Both to try and maintain bone density.

Do you mean normalised power? If so, I would be interested to know if anyone else is that far apart? My 100km on Saturday was 263W normalised, 271 20 min and 255 30 min.

The numbers generally look reasonable and I would imagine gradually the weight will go :) (I guess be careful on the days you're not monitoring intake. Whilst it's hard to overeat if you've burnt 2,500 cals, at the same time it can also easily be done :cry: )

**EDIT** I've just looked at my Sunday ride, on a bike without a Power meter and the numbers look more like you've got. Do you have a power meter?

**EDIT2** Also looked at a ride with a big climb (25 min climb) and it spreads those numbers, but I guess that's to be expected as the power wouldn't be as evenly spread over the ride.
ive got a Power meter.

dont trust strava if you dont have it for numbers as those are not close.
same with burnt calories :)

many times people think they have burnt 3k as strava said, but they might have burnt 1.5k ;)
 
What do people use to calculate and track calories?
Pretty low tech - the calc app on the phone to keep a rough running total through the day.

I find my Garmin fenix watch pretty useful at tracking exercise calories burnt, although the majority are done on a bike wth power meters so the bulk of it isn't guestimated from heart rate.
My BMR (resting calories) is around 2000. If I'm averaging 1500 active calories a day from exercise (according to Garmin) then I take about 2/3 of this* so an intake of around 3000 is fairly neutral.

* https://www.abdn.ac.uk/news/15270/ makes depressing reading if you're trying to lose weight:
The results show that only 54% of the calories burned by exercise or activity among people with the highest BMI actually translated into calories burned at the end of the day, due to their bodies reducing the energy spent on the most basic of functions. In contrast, 70% of calories burned during activity by those with the lowest body mass translated into more calories burned at the end of the day
 
Given that (or maybe I should say 'if' as I know we've argued this here before) weight training doesn't do much for weight loss (IMO and experience)
We've touched on it before in this thread I think but I personally have always sustained weight loss better with weight training over cardio, its a two fold thing for me.

1) Cardio makes me hungry, insanely hungry and i'll over eat to compensate for expenditure if i'm not careful. Weight training has a suppressive effect on my appetite.
2) Muscle mass increases with weight training, which in turn means we burn more calories at rest, ergo, I can eat more while not gaining fat.

Obviously, the best thing is a mix of both due to the benefits both forms of training offer outside of weight/fat control - my personal view is that both forms used in isolation can help achieve the same goal of fat loss however. Ultimately though, if not watching intake, both forms aren't going to help.

That's all a bit moot with my current situation since June, due to spinal issues, I can't do squats/deadlifts or anything spinal loaded (military press would be a risk) for weight training which takes away the 3 foundational moves of weight training so i'm stuck with cardio for the foreseeable.

I'm looking at getting a misery machine - sorry, air assault bike at the moment.
 
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dont trust strava if you dont have it for numbers as those are not close.
same with burnt calories :)

many times people think they have burnt 3k as strava said, but they might have burnt 1.5k ;)
Tbf, I rode on Saturday with a power meter and Sunday without and the numbers are actually about where I would expect them to be. Whoop always shows A LOT lower calories burnt though. (I just went for a very brisk 22 minute walk, Whoop says 31 calories. Surely that can't be right?) Tbh, I don't take them in a literal sense, but they're a good indicator of how hard you've worked.

If I'm averaging 1500 active calories a day from exercise (according to Garmin)
Wow, that's a pretty huge average? About, what, 2½ hours of exercise a day?

We've touched on it before in this thread I think but I personally have always sustained weight loss better with weight training over cardio, its a two fold thing for me.

1) Cardio makes me hungry, insanely hungry and i'll over eat to compensate for expenditure if i'm not careful. Weight training has a suppressive effect on my appetite.
2) Muscle mass increases with weight training, which in turn means we burn more calories at rest, ergo, I can eat more while not gaining fat.
I guess all I can talk of is my own experience. I lifted weights (and some basic sports action) for a long time and the weight went on and on. I think when I lift my average HR is still only around 90, so an hour of lifting, I don't see as really making me sweat, raising my respiratory rate and burning calories.

**EDIT** I do admit though, the big problem at this point was my diet, rather than my exercise.

Yes, I eat more on a day I cycle, but if I cycle for 5 hours, I probably only eat about 500-1,000 cals more than if I don't, so it's still a pretty heft net difference.

I did hear about how HIT can suppress hunger. Sometimes I go for a short ride after work, so maybe 1½ hours, but throw some sprints in and actually I'm not hungry when I finish. A couple of times I think I've eaten less than if I didn't cycle.
 
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@AndyCr15 Interesting, we're literally polar opposites with regards cardio, mine makes me famished, yours suppresses appetite.

Doesn't matter whether i've done a 10 minute jog, 30 minutes on rower, a brisk walk for an hour - all I want to do when I finish is eat all the things :D
 
Don't get me wrong, a 5 to 6 hour bike ride and I'll be very hungry that afternoon. It's the shorter ones, maybe with some sprints in that can actually seem to suppress it. I often think just keeping myself busy is the best thing. Finish work at 5 and I often can't make it past 5:30 and I want to eat, so I have dinner. Then I'm getting hungry again around 8pm. If I go for a ride, by the time I'm showered and such, it's maybe 7/7:15 and maybe I'm not that hungry, so sometimes I wait and eat closer to 8 which means I can get away with eating less before bed as I'm not as hungry.
 
What do people use to calculate and track calories?

I use MyFitnessPal to track what I'm eating and just use my Apple Watch to track calorie use. I don't care that it's not massively accurate as I don't deduct the exercise from what I'm consuming. I just feel comfortable that the exercise gives me a calorie buffer each day. I'm aiming for 2,100 and nearly always overshoot to 2,300-2,400. So the exercise hopefully offsets that a bit!

I was lighter today than I was last week, but I'm recording daily now (when I'm home) so it has really been up and down. Depends massively on when you poo too.
 
Wow, that's a pretty huge average? About, what, 2½ hours of exercise a day?
Most days it's about 75-90 minutes on the bike, throwing a few weights around, and later on in the day a 30-60 minute walk (which I don't really think of as 'proper' exercise TBH). Just looked at Garmin's activity history for the last year and it's averaging over 1400 active calories/day, and that includes days off, holidays, etc.
I know it's not exactly normal, but I feel better for it both physically and mentally.
 
Well done, that's huge.

Mind you, checking my Whoop it says in September I did 50½ hours, so about 1:40 a day on average, which is much more than I thought it would be... but then I guess I cycle between 8 and 10 hours each weekend, which in itself puts the average over an hour a day. (Although I see August was just under 30 hours)
 
I literally had to get the kitchen scales out and weight my meals out to understand the calories in more detail. I was underestimating calories and having much larger portions before. Whilst I'm not weighing everything at the moment, I did it for long enough to be able to more accurately estimate amounts and stick to my goal weight.

In positive news I have managed to wear a pair of 34" waist trousers all day today without ripping the arse out of them! Not sure when the last time I wore 34" waist, but I don't think I'll have been an adult!
 
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I literally had to get the kitchen scales out and weight my meals out to understand the calories in more detail. I was underestimating calories and having much larger portions before. Whilst I'm not weighing everything at the moment, I did it for long enough to be able to more accurately estimate amounts and stick to my goal weight.

In positive news I have managed to wear a pair of 34" waist trousers all day today without ripping the arse out of them! Not sure when the last time I wore 34" waist, but I don't think I'll have been an adult!

I just got a new coat as the weathers getting colder and my old ones are tents. Have gone from an XXL to a small!
 
Just had this recent study pop up on my recommended, guess google saw our conversation of fat loss with cardio versus weights the other day.


It found that strength training alone was more effective at reducing body fat than aerobic alone or a combination of aerobic/weight training. There was no significant difference in fat loss between the aerobic and aerobic/weight combined groups.

Caveat - it's on people with type 2 diabetes but it reinforces my personal experience of greater fat loss (not necessarily weight loss) with weights over cardio in both myself and my wife.
 
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Again, I'm just commenting on my own personal experience, which is the opposite of this. In fact, check that, I don't really have a comparator in 'normal weight'. I've been talking about when I was overweight.

(It seems quite a specific set of circumstances - "Strength training is more effective than aerobic exercise for improving glycaemic control and body composition in people with normal-weight type 2 diabetes: a randomised controlled trial")

If I lifted instead of cycling, the same amount of time too, yes, I can imagine my body composition might change more. I cycle 8-12 hours a week and rather maintain composition at the moment. I expect if I spent that long lifting, I would put on muscle mass and probably a little (but less) fat.

**EDIT** Actually, I don't know. Right now I'm maintaining weight. I eat around 2,400-2,700 cals a day. How much weightlifting would I need to add, if I stopped cycling do you think, to continue maintaining weight?
 
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Cardio makes me hungry, insanely hungry

You'll probably find this is a learned response that you can unlearn. Try doing cardio only at a time you can not eat for several hours after and religiously eat nothing during that time. Do that for a few weeks and you'll probably find your body will learn it doesn't get fed after cardio.
 
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Wall of text, apologies, got carried away!

(It seems quite a specific set of circumstances - "Strength training is more effective than aerobic exercise for improving glycaemic control and body composition in people with normal-weight type 2 diabetes: a randomised controlled trial")
Definitely that's why I mentioned the type 2 diabetes straight away, it's a decent range though, 180+ people across a large age range - however this is just one of a few studies i'm starting to see with increasing frequency over the last few years that's pointing to resistance/weight training being better at fat loss over cardio. I shared it today as it popped up on my google feed and our conversation from last week was fresh in my mind.

If I lifted instead of cycling, the same amount of time too, yes, I can imagine my body composition might change more. I cycle 8-12 hours a week and rather maintain composition at the moment. I expect if I spent that long lifting, I would put on muscle mass and probably a little (but less) fat.
This is another rabbit hole, there appears to be an upper limit of training before you start to increase your mortality risk - anything up to about 150 minutes a week decreases mortality risk but once you exceed that, the mortality risk starts to rise - i'll try and dig out the study later on. It overlaps with excessive cardio as well, over a certain amount increases mortality risk - basically you're damned if you do, damned if you don't :D

**EDIT** Actually, I don't know. Right now I'm maintaining weight. I eat around 2,400-2,700 cals a day. How much weightlifting would I need to add, if I stopped cycling do you think, to continue maintaining weight?

I don't think there is any clear answer here, it's all going to differ based on the individual, we all respond differently. I totally understand you championing cardio as you had a fantastic result from where you were years ago, we can only ever speak to our own experiences. Also if you enioy your riding, keep doing it, the best exercise is what we like.

My own experience, I was going 7-10 hours of cardio a week when I started going to the gym and not really seeing any change in my body. Did I feel better, sure, did my V02 max increase, absolutely so there were good impacts of course. My weight stayed static and my body fat didn't shift a lot. I got to become friends at work with a trainer who happened to go to the same gym and slowly got me around to doing weights I was very resistant at first as I was firmly of the belief, cardio for weight loss, weights for bulking up. I ended up doing 3 straight forward sessions a week of about 30-45 minutes each of the core 5 lifts. It took about 8 weeks to see any difference but my face thinned out, lost the double chin, dropped a few inches around the waist and started getting some comments about looking bigger from friends. I traded 7-10 hours for 2-2.5 hours and got the results i'd been endless chasing with cardio.

Let me say, doing weights meant I put weight on, however my body fat went down quite a bit, I was mid 20's percentage and dropped to mid teens (I skirted 13% at one point for a short while pre-wedding - all checked with caliper measurements). I often bring up the difference in this thread between fat and weight loss, I don't care about weight too much, I do care about how much fat i'm carrying and how I look in the mirror. I gained some decent body weight but I was thinner - looked visibly so when I look back at photos but that's the thing, muscle has more density than fat so you get away with being heavier and looking slimmer with increased lean mass.

Let's move onto my wife, she was a total cardio gym bunny, spent hours upon hours on a variety of machines and again, her body didn't change much. The same friend (we worked in the same place) helped get her onto some simple weights and she got in the best shape she's ever been. She has two photo's she looks back at that she's most proud of her physique, taken a few years apart, one of them she was 58kg when doing cardio, the other she was 64kg doing weights, she looks slimmer and healthier in the heavier picture.

In all i've mentioned above, calorie intake was monitored and mostly adhered to a sensible amount, for both my wife and myself. I naturally ate more when I started lifting as my weight did increase.

Ultimately, as said last week, everyone who cares for longevity and a long healthy life should focus on both, two of the biggest key indicators for living a long life are V02 max and lean body mass.

You'll probably find this is a learned response that you can unlearn. Try doing cardio only at a time you can not eat for several hours after and religious eat nothing during that time. Do that for a few weeks and you'll probably find your body will learn it doesn't get fed after cardio.

Totally agree and I won't over eat after a cardio session, I want to, I want to eat all the things but i've fairly good will power (assuming I haven't had a few ciders ;) ) - I monitor my calorie intake daily to ensure right now, i'm eating just below maintenance day to day.

EDIT: Finally, to add, i'm not some extreme exercise addict, I've had long periods over the last 15/20 years where i've done little to be good to myself and put weight back on, some depression spells where I simply didn't care, some times where i've had months of drinking and eating excessively, then had to work damned hard to get back in shape again, i'm just trying to share my experience and things i've learnt along the way and if it helps someone, then it's worth the rambling :D
 
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I wonder... your (and wife's) history was cardio, taking up weights was the difference. My history was weights, taking up cardio was the difference... Interesting?

I still can't move past burning 2,000 cals isn't better for weight loss than burning 200 cals. They both have different 'side benefits' of course (which is why I do both).

Tbh, I don't doubt this enough to go looking for studies (and I wouldn't even say I disagree with any of the above either) but... I thought I'd stick it into Google and the top result gave this -
Cardio is more effective than weight training at decreasing body fat if you do more than 150 minutes per week. Weight training is better than cardio for building muscle. A combination of cardio and weights may be best for improving your body composition.
Which is what I would expect it to say.
 
@AndyCr15 I think we're at an impasse, we both have hard positions here and no amount of discussion from either of us will change the others mind :D

However, it's good, we'll both be offering different advice to others and it prevents the thread turning into a back slapping echo chamber.
 
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