Chemical attack in London...

It’s a pretty interesting question raised in this thread: should a criminal conviction affect asylum status? Hmm. Not sure what I think about that! It depends I suppose.

For an application as a working migrant / VISA, that seems a reasonable, yes. For somebody requesting sanctuary (asylum)… it’s probably more important what they are requesting asylum from.

Obviously, it’s a real lose for a country to host anyone that goes on to harm others. But denying asylum just because of a prior conviction without considering the facts would be an improper substitute for proper safeguarding in other ways.
 
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jpaul said:
whilst we don't want the infringemengt of our public liberty of carrying identity cards , immingrants can't be tracked ... but Kiers coming round to that idea (again)
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I’ve never understood how carrying an ID card is infringing public liberty when any police officer can stop you and ask for your name, address and date of birth. Doubly so if you already carry a driver’s licence.

What liberty has been infringed?

Liberté is taken rather seriously over here, but the French I know all carry their ID cards without a second though even though it isn’t mandatory for citizens.
 
danlightbulb said:
No my point was that the system doesn't represent what people would want it to do, and to associate it with a generalised 'we' implies it's our system, I don't see it that way.
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It's our government. We (the country) voted for them whether we voted for this party or our personal vote went elsewhere (or not). Anyway, welcome to my block list.
 
Trifid said:
It's our government. We (the country) voted for them whether we voted for this party or our personal vote went elsewhere (or not). Anyway, welcome to my block list.
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Ok...bit of an overreaction but go for it.

Tell me where we get the choice to vote on specific asylum policy such as allowing a criminal asylum if he claims to have converted to Christian? You could not make it up, what idiot was convinced by that?
 
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Terminal_Boy said:
I’ve never understood how carrying an ID card is infringing public liberty when any police officer can stop you and ask for your name, address and date of birth. Doubly so if you already carry a driver’s licence.

What liberty has been infringed?

Liberté is taken rather seriously over here, but the French I know all carry their ID cards without a second though even though it isn’t mandatory for citizens.
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Don't have an issue with ID cards either, I don't think most people would have any issue. Being directed by a minority view yet again.
 
Nitefly said:
It’s a pretty interesting question raised in this thread: should a criminal conviction affect asylum status? Hmm. Not sure what I think about that! It depends I suppose.

For an application as a working migrant / VISA, that seems a reasonable, yes. For somebody requesting sanctuary (asylum)… it’s probably more important what they are requesting asylum from.

Obviously, it’s a real lose for a country to host anyone that goes on to harm others. But denying asylum just because of a prior conviction without considering the facts would be an improper substitute for proper safeguarding in other ways.
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Someone commiting a crime once they get here, especially something like sexual assault should have their asylum claim chucked straight in the bin.
 
Uther said:
Someone commiting a crime once they get here, especially something like sexual assault should have their asylum claim chucked straight in the bin.
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Yes, and neither should we then care what happens to them in their home country. They gave up that goodwill by committing a crime here.
 
Uther said:
Someone commiting a crime once they get here, especially something like sexual assault should have their asylum claim chucked straight in the bin.
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That’s an understandable sentiment, although I still think all variables need considering.

danlightbulb said:
Yes, and neither should we then care what happens to them in their home country. They gave up that goodwill by committing a crime here.
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I think this goes too far, personally.
 
Nitefly said:
It’s a pretty interesting question raised in this thread: should a criminal conviction affect asylum status? Hmm. Not sure what I think about that! It depends I suppose.

For an application as a working migrant / VISA, that seems a reasonable, yes. For somebody requesting sanctuary (asylum)… it’s probably more important what they are requesting asylum from.

Obviously, it’s a real lose for a country to host anyone that goes on to harm others. But denying asylum just because of a prior conviction without considering the facts would be an improper substitute for proper safeguarding in other ways.
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It’s almost as though a blanket one-size-fits-all rule wouldn’t be effective, nuance is important, and context matters.

For example, if someone has a criminal conviction in their home country for challenging an authoritarian regime, are we telling them to jog on?

On the other hand, I think it’s hard to argue that someone who comes here for asylum and goes on to commit a violent/sexual crime should be allowed to stay here. There’s not many scenarios I can think of where that type of conviction could be justified and still allow the person to stay.

As for this particular case, there have obviously been serious failings at multiple levels and the public deserves to know how those failings happened, who is responsible and, what is going to be done about it.

And as for this particular individual, he should be brought to justice and then expelled from the country as quickly as possible (within the law, of course).

E: grammar.
 
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Regarding the government minister today speaking about the "asylum merry-go-round", it's a long time since I studied the subject, but it's possible to derogate from the ECHR on national security grounds. Perhaps someone more knowledgable could answer why the government has not tried this solution?
 
What I would like to see is:

1) If someone has a criminal conviction abroad then this must be taken into account during the asylum process. Even serious crimes don't have to prevent an asylum application being successful if there is a reasonable belief that the country the asylum seeker is escaping from has used the law to attack an innocent person. But the circumstances must be taken into account and it could potentially prevent a successful asylum claim for serious crimes.

2) Not declaring any such convictions, if later discovered, would immediately result in a previously successful asylum claim being revoked and a new application opened. If the applicant was found to be deliberately hiding their past with no good reason then the new claim would fail.

3) The asylum seeker must be whiter than white (not a reference to skin colour!) during the application process and forever afterwards. Any legal infraction committed in this country or any other country since the start of the asylum claim, possibly even minor ones, results in the application failing or being revoked. They would then be deported. If the person wants to receive the benefits of our society they must show that they respect it and are willing to abide by our rules.
 
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Efour said:
Side tracking to the id card question...
After living here 10 years of cards are so bloody good, easy, useful its comical to argue against them.
Most people carry a drivers license anyway....
It's such a weird thing to be afraid of
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indeed, i just fail to understand a single argument for not having mandatory ID cards. Most other developed countries do this, most people are happy to carry driving license and these are in fact mandatory while driving, we have to use an ID for age verification . So WTF can't we expect people to have an ID on them, and people register their current abode with the council
 
Efour said:
Side tracking to the id card question...
After living here 10 years of cards are so bloody good, easy, useful its comical to argue against them.
Most people carry a drivers license anyway....
It's such a weird thing to be afraid of
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Completely agree. I treat my drivers licence as an Id card anyway.
 
Nitefly said:
It’s a pretty interesting question raised in this thread: should a criminal conviction affect asylum status? Hmm. Not sure what I think about that! It depends I suppose.

For an application as a working migrant / VISA, that seems a reasonable, yes. For somebody requesting sanctuary (asylum)… it’s probably more important what they are requesting asylum from.

Obviously, it’s a real lose for a country to host anyone that goes on to harm others. But denying asylum just because of a prior conviction without considering the facts would be an improper substitute for proper safeguarding in other ways.
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Yes it really should, especially one of sexual assault.

Not sure how other countries do it, but I imagine somewhere like US would chuck any asylum case out on the smallest of petty crime.
 
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