Junior Doctors Strikes

[chrcoluk]

I’m not sure it’s the targets as such tbh. We personally run a blend of options. We have bookable up to 4 weeks in advance. Some only book able in advance with a doctor say so, some urgent on the day and some embargoed for all bookings but open up a few days ahead so can be semi urgent or if not used add to the urgent on the day.

The models of telephone or online triage on day or massive queues of “you’ll be called at some point today” are all just ways for demand management and it’s a symptom of things being too busy

My surgery allows GPs to book in advance, but I have never managed to get staff to book anything for me other than same day.

I used to be able to get round it by booking online as I could login 8am, and grab one of the few slots they unlocked, but now they have blocked online bookings, so its fighting with 100s of other people for 2-3 appointments.

Reason available appointments are so low as most are taken by GPs booking them in advance.

This isnt speculation either its been confirmed over the phone, by my GP, and by management of the surgery sending letters out to patients on why they wont let people book in advance. My GP gets round it if they want me to see them again in future, they will book it in advance on the spot for me. But that only works for repeat appointments when the GP themselves want you to see them.
Staff can also do it for specific reasons, like when I had a blood test, one rang me up and told me a GP needed to speak to me and gave me a choice of advance dates for it, in the end it was (in my opinion) a wasted slot as the call was just to tell me everything is ok.

Also there is no online consultations, like no email/ticket system, I can imagine simple queries could be made direct to GPs, that take up way less than 10 minutes and this would massively improve efficiency, lower demand in my opinion.

 

[arknor]

You dont have your 10 minutes, thats just the spacing between appointments. Some people will have 1 problem that takes 45 minutes or more to sort and other problems are quick. Just because one patient has a quick problem sorted in 5 mins means there is time going free.

I thought it was a requirement as per the contract they have?


Also seems not long ago GPs were arguing for longer appointments

GPs say 10-minute appointment with doctor is too short

Royal College of GPs wants patients to be allocated 15-minute slots

www.theguardian.com

“It is abundantly clear that the standard 10-minute appointment is unfit for purpose. It’s increasingly rare for a patient to present with a just single health condition and we cannot deal with this adequately in 10 minutes,” said Prof Helen Stokes-Lampard, the college’s chair.

“GPs want to deliver truly holistic care to our patients, considering all the physical, psychological and social factors potentially impacting on their health. But this depends on us having more time to spend with patients and the resources and people to allow us to do this.”

Weirdly that GP talks about multiple ailments in the 10 minute slot, something my surgery doesn't allow and I thought was standard?

If I could discuss more than one issue at a time I'd probably have found out a lot sooner that I likely have a hyper active thyroid.

I've been on meds for stomach acid for a few years now, had other things like going to the toilet a lot more, and being thirsty I never mentioned..

I assumed it was probably diabetes and with how hard it is to get appointments anyway I never bothered going back about that on it's own.

seems it probably wasn't GERDS in the first place but a Hyper active thyroid that's gradually gotten worse...

I thought other symptoms weere unrelated so felt like I wasn't allowed to ask...

I once asked if a GP could quickly have a check on a rather large weird mole on my back.. looked at my like I was dog poop for something that takes 10 seconds.... can literally just pull my collar down at the back and it's visible.


NHS is not really fit for purpose in my experience, or atleast the gateway to it which is heavily guarded, often by rude receptionists who treat everyone as time wasters

I wonder how many long term medical conditions could have been picked up years sooner, but people wait until it's "bad enough" before trying to see a GP, and then it ends up costing the NHS a lot more.

 

[chrcoluk]

All these issues will be a factor as well as to why we have increasing levels of long term sickness in the working age.

 

[heeeed]

Ahh the good old vocation argument. If you limit your pool to people who are willing to be endentured slaves then you will get a very small pool of talent and miss out on probably the best people, as well as the slaves will burn out shortly into their career. Why on earth do you think because someone wants to do something of value that they shouldn’t want to be treated reasonably and paid appropriately?

 

[Minstadave]

I thought it was a requirement as per the contract they have?

The 10 minutes per appointment schedule is but that doesn't mean every patient has a protected 10 minutes all to themselves.

 

[heeeed]

Also there is no online consultations, like no email/ticket system, I can imagine simple queries could be made direct to GPs, that take up way less than 10 minutes and this would massively improve efficiency, lower demand in my opinion.

They probably have some online option but they may switch off at times for demand. You can sometimes do some stuff via online forms and quicker, but ultimately it all becomes another stream of work when there is no time in a day to do it. many people ask questions that can’t be done online and you’ve spent time reading through stuff to then send them a text to book an appointment. Suddenly 3 mins of my day has been totally wasted and nobody has gained a thing.

 

[heeeed]

The 10 minutes per appointment schedule is but that doesn't mean every patient has a protected 10 minutes all to themselves.

There is nothing contractual about 10 mins in fact it’s just the custom in UK. Many other countries do longer. If you do longer though you can’t do as many….

 

[chrcoluk]

They probably have some online option but they may switch off at times for demand. You can sometimes do some stuff via online forms and quicker, but ultimately it all becomes another stream of work when there is no time in a day to do it. many people ask questions that can’t be done online and you’ve spent time reading through stuff to then send them a text to book an appointment. Suddenly 3 mins of my day has been totally wasted and nobody has gained a thing.

Nope is no online consultations at my surgery, they just stuck in the stone age sadly.

The only online is able to order prescriptions, request medication. Used to be online booking but the surgery turned it off.

 

[Minstadave]

Off we go again!

Going to be hard to find cover this round I think, many consultants aren't loving the idea of another few months of ward work. Will be interesting to see what trusts do regarding rates, BMA rates are even higher this time and everyone was focused on cutting costs to the bone.

 

[potatolord]

Nope is no online consultations at my surgery, they just stuck in the stone age sadly.

The only online is able to order prescriptions, request medication. Used to be online booking but the surgery turned it off.

To be fair, online booking reduces triage of appointments, and might mean more urgent but less digitally savvy people go without.

 

[Hagar]

Off we go again!

Going to be hard to find cover this round I think, many consultants aren't loving the idea of another few months of ward work. Will be interesting to see what trusts do regarding rates, BMA rates are even higher this time and everyone was focused on cutting costs to the bone.

I won't be too blunt with my scorn. However at least the whole of parliament is on the same page noted to give in to their demands. Over the past three years including the 5,4% this year, they have trousered 28.6%. Now they are demanding 29%.

OK I will be blunt, the illegitimate sons of female canines do not really care about the nurses and other professionals they work alongside as long as their own greed is satisfied. They really should go elsewhere if that is their attitude and blackmail is their bag.

 

[CaptainRAVE]

It’s getting boring, greedy and entitled now, we’d all love 30%. Don’t like it, **** off to another profession or country.

 

[Mr Jack]

Good luck to them. It was foolish of Labour to not commit to a timetable for pay restoration.

I won't be too blunt with my scorn. However at least the whole of parliament is on the same page noted to give in to their demands. Over the past three years including the 5,4% this year, they have trousered 28.6%. Now they are demanding 29%.

Funny way to say they're not quite being paid what they were in 20/21:

No-one should accept this kind of pay erosion.

 

[Mint8]

and yet..millions do beacuse they have little choiced - and in jobs way less well paid than junior doctors and without the golden honey pot at the end of it when they become consultants etc.

You know something is wrong when even Labour wont give them their support.

 

[Hagar]

Good luck to them. It was foolish of Labour to not commit to a timetable for pay restoration.



Funny way to say they're not quite being paid what they were in 20/21:

No-one should accept this kind of pay erosion.

Would it not be spiffing if all trades and professions could claim pay restitution up to RPI for the last 18 years or more. Not going to happen however much the BMA and other unions bleat about it.

 

[Malevolence]

Thankfully, they've chosen to strike when I already have annual leave booked. So that's nice.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Good luck to them. It was foolish of Labour to not commit to a timetable for pay restoration.



Funny way to say they're not quite being paid what they were in 20/21:

No-one should accept this kind of pay erosion.

The issue is most have accepted pay at least some erosion over the last 18 years or so.

It was absolutely not foolish to not agree to full pay restoration against RPI.

Why? Because average wages have not been keeping pace with RPI generally, that’s why people are talking about the U.K. population generally getting poorer.

No government can commit to pay restoration against RPI because there simply isn’t the money, UK GDP hasn’t been keeping pace to enable it. This isn’t just the case for doctors, all public sector workers are in the same boat.

Now, something did need to be done in this specific sector to aid retention but an additional 29% is a pipe dream.

There is a good reason why the BMA is using RPI rather than CPI or average wages, is because it flatters their argument significantly.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64970708?app-referrer=deep-link

While a little old, the chart 1/3 through on this article tells you everything you need to know as to why full pay restoration against RPI is problematic in the U.K.

 

[Minstadave]

and yet..millions do beacuse they have little choiced - and in jobs way less well paid than junior doctors and without the golden honey pot at the end of it when they become consultants etc.

You know something is wrong when even Labour wont give them their support.

The golden honeypot is make believe, being a Consultant is not bad but utterly frustrating.

The pension is "meh", annual allowance charges on a pot that doesnt exist are common place and can run into 5 figures, and the pay is bettered pretty much everywhere else In the world.

Colleague just left for Dubai on 3x the salary and no income tax.

 

[Mr Jack]

Why? Because average wages have not been keeping pace with RPI generally, that’s why people are talking about the U.K. population generally getting poorer.

No government can commit to pay restoration against RPI because there simply isn’t the money, UK GDP hasn’t been keeping pace to enable it. This isn’t just the case for doctors, all public sector workers are in the same boat.

Gosh, I wonder whether one of these things might be related to the other?

One of the major reasons that the Tories massively reduced UK growth, alongside the idiocy of Brexit, is that they collapsed UK wages. The UK desperately needs wage recovery across the entire economy. The government doesn't hold the levers for much of that, but it can lead it from the public sector.

and yet..millions do beacuse they have little choiced

I couldn't put the argument for stronger unions better.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Gosh, I wonder whether one of these things might be related to the other?

One of the major reasons that the Tories massively reduced UK growth, alongside the idiocy of Brexit, is that they collapsed UK wages. The UK desperately needs wage recovery across the entire economy. The government doesn't hold the levers for much of that, but it can lead it from the public sector.



I couldn't put the argument for stronger unions better.

Actually no, they can’t. Not without piling on a shed load of debt because tax receipts are not growing fast enough to enable it.

This is one of the things where they actually need to create the conditions to grow private sector wages (and therefor tex revenue) to grow public sector wages.

Of course they could increase taxes but there are few of those they could do which wouldn’t have a negative impact on growth.

Outside of this they should be looking to restore pay in line with average wage growth, not RPI. Even that would be a fairly substantial pay rise.