EV general discussion

[Simon]

I don’t.

Of course the price point matters when you are comparing different cars and their respective features and quality. What a nonsense statement.



It’s not ‘challenge’ when you go out of your way to berate certain posters in this thread almost regardless of what they write.

There was no strawman being put forward in my post despite your accusations of one. There was me thinking you are only about facts as you have pronounced in the past.

Your follow up question is just an attempt to assert that your opinion is ‘superior’ because you think you have driven a larger verity of cars for longer, otherwise why else would you ask it.

I’m just interested it what else you have driven that’s all. Don’t start inventing stuff cause someone has disagreed on a discussion forum. You brought in some 40k number which I don’t really know why as that also wasn’t part of the discussion. Apparently a 40k Tesla is ok to ride crap compared to 40k cars as it has air suspension (who cares what it has if it rides crap) yet lower priced cars ride better but don’t have air suspension so can be ignored? It made no sense so I ask why you mention the price point

The strawman was bringing in air suspension comparisons. I didn’t bring that in. You did.

 

[Journey]

You made a claim that a Tesla is not a premium priced EV and was no more expensive than an equivalent VW, Kia, or Hyundai EV. That is objectively not true, not now and not ever.

I guess you haven't seen how much an ID.4, Ioniq 5, or EV6 cost new then?

 

[ICDP]

Tesla are amazing value on the


I guess you haven't seen how much an ID.4, Ioniq 5, or EV6 cost new then?

The poster I was replying to brought a basic entry spec £40k Model 3 into the debate as if it wasn’t “premium” and alleged it was the same price as a VW, Kia, or Hyundai. A base spec Model 3 is more in line with an ID.3, Niro, or Kona. All of which can be bought considerably cheaper.

The cars you mentioned are more mid sized SUVs and contemporaries to a Model Y.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

I’m just interested it what else you have driven that’s all. Don’t start inventing stuff cause someone has disagreed on a discussion forum. You brought in some 40k number which I don’t really know why as that also wasn’t part of the discussion. Apparently a 40k Tesla is ok to ride crap compared to 40k cars as it has air suspension (who cares what it has if it rides crap) yet lower priced cars ride better but don’t have air suspension so can be ignored? It made no sense so I ask why you mention the price point

The strawman was bringing in air suspension comparisons. I didn’t bring that in. You did.

If you’d read the conversation instead of attacking me as a poster, you’d realise it was actually IDCP bought in air suspension.

My point is you have to spend materially more than money than what you’d spend on a Tesla to get something with air suspension.

This is what I don’t get. It’s like there only one EV out there and it begins with T

…and now you’re just making stuff up.

 

[ICDP]

My point is you have to spend materially more than money than what you’d spend on a Tesla to get something with air suspension.

I already showed that you can indeed get a car with air suspension for the same price as a Tesla Model 3. The fact you keep bringing up the base spec £40k Model 3 proves nothing. One you go to bigger battery or more options the prices become very similar.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

I already showed that you can indeed get a car with air suspension for the same price as a Tesla Model 3. The fact you keep bringing up the base spec £40k Model 3 proves nothing. One you go to bigger battery or more options the prices become very similar.

I don’t deny you could get a heavily discounted iPace once upon a time.

You can’t today…

 

[Simon]

So what else have you driven ? Just don’t understand how you think a Tesla rides well

 

[ICDP]

And what about the i4 I referred to? Once you start adding options or go for the larger battery the Model 3 is similar prices to an i4 with air suspension as standard?

My original point was that the Model 3 was not anywhere near a premium car despite being premium priced. You tried to counter with a “it’s only £40,000” and the same price as a Kia, VW, or Hyundai. You can get entry level EVs from VW, Kia and Hyundai for substantially lower prices.

 

[Robbo]

Yeah, was in a Highland recently and it had a level of comfort that I was getting in my BMW 4 Series 10 years ago. Tesla finally caught up with the levels of build quality and comfort that has been standard for decades in other much cheaper brands. In fact other “premium” priced EVs have managed to keep their comfort advantage with air suspension as standard etc. In the meantime the EV advantage Tesla arguably had has evaporated to the point that Tesla is overall a worse car.

Where Tesla still wins is in the infotainment and tech side*

*No I’m not talking about their terrible autopilot.

The current Model 3 (Highland) is a far more sorted car than the previous model. The ride quality and handling are generally considered to be excellent for this sort of car and having tried a couple recently, I thought so too. For reference I am used to a 7 Series with twin-axle adaptive air suspension. In terms of build quality, I can't speak for the long term but at a £40k price point it seemed about on par with things like an Audi A4/3 Series, certainly nothing stood out as being poor quality - not that there's a lot going on inside!

Supercharging is still a definite advantage, more available chargers that are easier and critically cheaper to use. 30-40p per Kw beats the 80p most places are trying to charge.

The infotainment does seem good too, people get hung up on Carplay but they've integrated some key parts of that, like Spotify and Apple Podcasts. Although pure touchscreen is generally rubbish, same with most new cars.

I was however a bit shocked by Autopilot. Admittedly I've not used it loads but it seems massively inferior to my BMW Driving Assistant Professional. It struggles to work properly on unlit roads as it relies heavily on the cameras. It regularly cuts out and changing lanes seems to be a major hassle on the motorway. Tesla keep going on about how great it is in the US and it can drive you everywhere without any input at all, but based on what I've seen it must be a complete death trap. Maybe I'm just using it wrong...

The indicator buttons are a bit silly but I think most people would get used to it pretty quickly, I did.

The new Model 3 and Y seem decent cars to me at pretty reasonable prices - the issue now is more with people's perceptions of Tesla and Musk, rather than the cars themselves.

 

[ICDP]

Yes, agreed on the Highland finally being a car worthy of the prices they are selling for. Back in 2020 when I first test drove one it was a terrible car by every metric apart from EV efficiency. For the well over £50k the RWD LR version was going to cost, it was laughably bad.

Build quality had improved a lot by 2022 when I test drive one again, but still no better than much cheaper cars and again just left me feeling they were asking premium prices for a bang average car.

The problem for Tesla is that for all the talk of other EV manufacturers having to “catch up”, Tesla had arguably even more catching up to do in areas arguably far more important. Tesla stagnated on the EV side of things and their cars are now very superficial changes to now very dated designs. The mainstream rivals have now caught up in the EV side of things and are arguably still overall better cars for similar prices.

I mean the best thing I can say about the Highland is it’s a bit more efficient than rivals and it has a suspension that finally meets the lofty standards of “it’s no longer terrible, but nothing special”. Hardly a ringing endorsement.

 

[Jon20]

Anyone had a test drive or owns a Renault 5? Got a test drive booked for Wednesday, will be the first time I've driven an EV. Really like the look of it, would probably go for the Techno spec. I very rarely have any passengers so the slightly cramped rear shouldn't be an issue. If I do decide to go for it, what chargers do people have installed at home? Think the Hypervolt and Zappi are the current best? Would want to use it with Intelligent Octopus Go.

 

[Yaayuh!]

Anyone had a test drive or owns a Renault 5? Got a test drive booked for Wednesday, will be the first time I've driven an EV. Really like the look of it, would probably go for the Techno spec. I very rarely have any passengers so the slightly cramped rear shouldn't be an issue. If I do decide to go for it, what chargers do people have installed at home? Think the Hypervolt and Zappi are the current best? Would want to use it with Intelligent Octopus Go.

Zappi all the way.
I use it with Intelligent Octopus Go and it’s just brilliant to use.

 

[Journey]

Was helping a friend find a car for her daughter who wanted to bin off a 13-plate Ka with endless issues, found some great deals on nearly new Dacia Springs, you can get the 65 Xtreme version for £10.5k, which is actually surprisingly well equipped for the money, and incredibly efficient. She's going to save ~£1,200 a year in fuel costs, and have the same level of performance she is used to but without the drawbacks.

Thought I'd mention it in case any one else is looking for a small car, that is nearly new.

 

[sandys]

Anyone had a test drive or owns a Renault 5? Got a test drive booked for Wednesday, will be the first time I've driven an EV. Really like the look of it, would probably go for the Techno spec. I very rarely have any passengers so the slightly cramped rear shouldn't be an issue. If I do decide to go for it, what chargers do people have installed at home? Think the Hypervolt and Zappi are the current best? Would want to use it with Intelligent Octopus Go.

Yup I test drove it, its a nice car, I struggled with getting in and out of it as I'm a big lad and the opening/seat height mean it feels is smaller than my MX5 or Up but once in very comfortable and I like what they have done with the dash design etc, makes the cheaper car look and feel better than some more expensive competitors, really great looking car and a nice size but for me I would be tempted to spend a bit more and get the Alpine A290 even if some of its infotainment choices are a bit childish, looks even better and has a bit more power so the acceleration drop off after 60mph is not so bad.

Another Zappi fan here but I'm sure they are all good these days.

 

[TheVoice]

Anyone had a test drive or owns a Renault 5? Got a test drive booked for Wednesday, will be the first time I've driven an EV. Really like the look of it, would probably go for the Techno spec. I very rarely have any passengers so the slightly cramped rear shouldn't be an issue. If I do decide to go for it, what chargers do people have installed at home? Think the Hypervolt and Zappi are the current best? Would want to use it with Intelligent Octopus Go.

Yep, test drove two of them and then ordered one after the second time. No heated seats/wheel on Techno so bear that in mind, the other differences are probably less significant. It was my first time driving an EV too, took a moment of getting used to but it's mostly like driving an ICE with an auto gearbox except far smoother and more responsive. I was impressed with how comfortable it was to drive for a smaller car, my SEAT Leon picks up every bump and pothole but the R5 smooths them out brilliantly.

Be advised that lead times seem to be growing at the moment, people on the Facebook owner groups who have just ordered have an estimated delivery date in late September. The last update I got from the dealer a few weeks ago said end of June for mine.

 

[Jon20]

@sandys, @TheVoice Thanks. Not too worried about the lack of heated seats/steering wheel on the Techno spec. Not really a fan of the wheel design or the piano black on the wheel arch trim of the Iconic. Would love an Alpine A290 but can’t justify the extra. Probably go for the 150bhp comfort range, has a bit more power than my current Fiesta but might feel quicker with the auto gearbox and the instant torque. Do like the Midnight Blue colour, not sure I could go with the Pop Yellow or Green even though it suits the car. Hopefully if I place an order, it’ll arrive a bit quicker but was expecting around September/October for delivery.

 

[TheVoice]

@sandys, @TheVoice Thanks. Not too worried about the lack of heated seats/steering wheel on the Techno spec. Not really a fan of the wheel design or the piano black on the wheel arch trim of the Iconic. Would love an Alpine A290 but can’t justify the extra. Probably go for the 150bhp comfort range, has a bit more power than my current Fiesta but might feel quicker with the auto gearbox and the instant torque. Do like the Midnight Blue colour, not sure I could go with the Pop Yellow or Green even though it suits the car. Hopefully if I place an order, it’ll arrive a bit quicker but was expecting around September/October for delivery.

Yeah I slightly preferred the chunkier wheels on the Techno and the blue interior at first, but a heated steering wheel was an absolute must for my permanently cold hands, and after seeing both trims in person the Iconic does look and feel a bit fancier at least. Other countries can spec a winter pack as an extra option on other trims, but not the UK. I felt the same about the yellow, it looks great on the car and shows off the design really well, but I don't think I could live with it whereas the blue blends in a bit more.

Unless you've got a Fiesta ST I think you'll find it's significantly quicker, I wasn't expecting it to feel as quick and responsive as it did compared to my SEAT Leon FR, but despite the similar HP figure it performs very differently. Let us know how you get on with it.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Sat in a R5 at Everything electric last week. Ace little thing.

 

[Jon20]

Yeah I slightly preferred the chunkier wheels on the Techno and the blue interior at first, but a heated steering wheel was an absolute must for my permanently cold hands, and after seeing both trims in person the Iconic does look and feel a bit fancier at least. Other countries can spec a winter pack as an extra option on other trims, but not the UK. I felt the same about the yellow, it looks great on the car and shows off the design really well, but I don't think I could live with it whereas the blue blends in a bit more.

Unless you've got a Fiesta ST I think you'll find it's significantly quicker, I wasn't expecting it to feel as quick and responsive as it did compared to my SEAT Leon FR, but despite the similar HP figure it performs very differently. Let us know how you get on with it.

Its just a MK8 Fiesta ST Line X with the 140bhp ecoboost, does have a Superchips Bluefin remap on it but that was mostly for the increased torque. Still expect the R5 to feel quicker

 

[Rroff]

Wow the price has really fallen out on the used Leaf market - essentially brand new 2024 ones with little more than delivery miles at almost half the retail price for new.

EDIT: Looks like the outdated charging support is a big contributor to that.