The Last of Us (HBO, from Creator of Chernobyl) - No game spoilers please
- Thread starter Random Guy Esq.
- Start date
Caporegime
- Joined
- 30 Jul 2013
- Posts
- 30,113
Just feels like an extension of the hate that Neil Druckman got after the game to me.
I kinda doubt that's really the case tbh.
A lot of the people I've heard complaining about S2 either loved the second game or never played either of them, I suspect the vast majority of those that didn't enjoy TLOU2 haven't bothered watching S2. I sure as heck haven't, I've kept up with it thus far out of curiosity and was half tempted to give it a shot depending the direction HBO went with things. There's absolutely people that will "hate watch" a thing out there, but assuming it's legions of people to the point they're the only ones complaining is a stretch.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 30 Jul 2013
- Posts
- 30,113
I meant that specific comparison gif.
Fair enough.
I'd say it's more likely to be people looking for hits and laughs with no skin in the game rather than anyone mad about Druckman. I consider the man a hack personally, but I and I'm sure 99% of the population who feel that way have better things to do with their time.
Soldato
- Joined
- 21 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 6,510
- Location
- West Sussex
best episode of series 2, so much more emotion
Yeah, the best part of an overall dull episode was Joel. The emotion in his face was heartbreaking.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 9 Mar 2006
- Posts
- 58,633
- Location
- Surrey
Great episode, built up so well to that final scene.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 30 Jul 2013
- Posts
- 30,113
I'm probably of the weird opinion that you can't fast forward lots of an episode and then review it.
Missed the point there I feel, there's more to this show than shiving clickers.
At the start of the episode with Joel's Dad you get the line "I hope you do a little better than me".
Joel lost his daughter at the start of the outbreak in episode 1, meaning he'd failed his father's expectation. He'd failed to do a "little better" by not being able to protect his own daughter.
Therefore when he learned that the Fireflies intended to harvest Ellie to make a cure he was compelled to save her. 1) because he'd grown to love her like a daughter and 2) he needed to redress the failure he'd made by not protecting his own daughter.
Ellie calls him a selfish a-hole for taking away her purpose, but then Joel explains his motivation to her and says that when she has her own children he hoped she'd "do a little better than me". For which Ellie says she'll never be able to forgive him, but she'd be willing to try. To me meaning she understood why he did what he did to the Fireflies and Marlene.
Joel was faced with an impossible decision, but I don't think saving Ellie makes him the villain when you consider the character development and the bond they develop in TLoU1 against the backdrop of his father's words and the loss of his own daughter.
Joel lost his daughter at the start of the outbreak in episode 1, meaning he'd failed his father's expectation. He'd failed to do a "little better" by not being able to protect his own daughter.
Therefore when he learned that the Fireflies intended to harvest Ellie to make a cure he was compelled to save her. 1) because he'd grown to love her like a daughter and 2) he needed to redress the failure he'd made by not protecting his own daughter.
Ellie calls him a selfish a-hole for taking away her purpose, but then Joel explains his motivation to her and says that when she has her own children he hoped she'd "do a little better than me". For which Ellie says she'll never be able to forgive him, but she'd be willing to try. To me meaning she understood why he did what he did to the Fireflies and Marlene.
Joel was faced with an impossible decision, but I don't think saving Ellie makes him the villain when you consider the character development and the bond they develop in TLoU1 against the backdrop of his father's words and the loss of his own daughter.
Question for @kakarott, @TonTom and @The Shape - have you played TLoU1/2 or are you coming into this series with no preconceptions? Playing the games reaaaaaally makes a difference in the perception of the scenes. It also really eases the view towards Bella Ramsey. I wasn't massively enamoured with her casting choice initially but if you compare her to Ellie in the game she's doing a great job in her portrayal imo.
I've played them both yeah. It was the other thing he did. The Eugene subplot just felt mean spirited. Saving Ellie wasn't what made him appear to be a villain. The other thing did.
Ah yeah, fair one.
I think they did it as the tee-up for the veranda chat with Ellie. i.e They needed an in for Ellie to say Joel had broken his word, and then Joel explains why he did what he did with the Fireflies when he rescued her and how important she was to him.
Joel being risk averse and not wanting to bring an infected back to Jackson, or risk exposing Ellie to danger (on her birthday of all times) justifies his decision in a way. I agree it was pretty mean-spirited to deny a condemned man his last wish to see his wife and in doing so go back on a promise he'd literally just made to Ellie but there was a reason why - protecting Ellie and Jackson.
Joel knows he's not perfect, and says "and for that I'll pay the price I'm sure" so I think it served as more foreshadowing for his demise ultimately.
I think they did it as the tee-up for the veranda chat with Ellie. i.e They needed an in for Ellie to say Joel had broken his word, and then Joel explains why he did what he did with the Fireflies when he rescued her and how important she was to him.
Joel being risk averse and not wanting to bring an infected back to Jackson, or risk exposing Ellie to danger (on her birthday of all times) justifies his decision in a way. I agree it was pretty mean-spirited to deny a condemned man his last wish to see his wife and in doing so go back on a promise he'd literally just made to Ellie but there was a reason why - protecting Ellie and Jackson.
Joel knows he's not perfect, and says "and for that I'll pay the price I'm sure" so I think it served as more foreshadowing for his demise ultimately.
Him taking out Eugene was the best thing he could have done so personally I don't see him as a bad guy , I see him the same way as i saw Ripley from the original Alien when see wouldn't let Kane back on the ship after being attacked by a face hugger and we all know how that turned out for all parties in the end ... Joel done the right thing 
Last edited:
He lied to Ellie.Him taking out Eugene was the best thing he could have done so personally I don't see him as a bad guy , I see him the same way as i saw Ripley from the original Alien when see wouldn't let cain back on the ship after being attacked by a face hugger and we all know how that turned out for all parties in the end ... Joel done the right thing
No but I've watched all the cut scenes/play through on YouTube. I disagree with her portrayal.