There seems to be a thought that it allows a thief or thieves to work unseen and with less noticeable noise.
Biker's Cafe Chatroom
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Soldato
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Would ABS on a motorbike do the following
1) New riders trusting ABS, so they'll not learn proper brake progression control, be ham fisted on brake
2) Not having ABS - therefore more wary of braking knowing you can lose traction so be more delicate on the brakes.
1) New riders trusting ABS, so they'll not learn proper brake progression control, be ham fisted on brake
2) Not having ABS - therefore more wary of braking knowing you can lose traction so be more delicate on the brakes.
Hard to say....
A decent ABS system is not noticeable on the road imo - until you need it - like braking and hitting gravel you didn't notice, or having to brake hard in the wet. But these events are typically few and far between, that you'll be fine to get a feeling of braking; and training will help you to understand how much and how hard you need to pull the stoppers.
As for being wary - that's just a skill/experience thing really, I've had sports/superbikes without ABS and have ridden them hard with no issues. It's just about learning to squeeze the lever, and not grab at it
Soldato
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and I guess it's not a black and white issue either
Don't have provisional yet, still waiting for it to come back, but I've seen a bike but I can't get insurance for a second rider (who rides a 1000) so he can't test ride it, nor ride it back to my house.
Don't have provisional yet, still waiting for it to come back, but I've seen a bike but I can't get insurance for a second rider (who rides a 1000) so he can't test ride it, nor ride it back to my house.
Not in my experience, even with abs you can't just grab handfuls of brake all the time
ABS or not, if you’re grabbing on the brakes it isn’t going to be a great experience.
One can get far too used to all the new fangled safety systems on a bike (traction control, anti wheelie etc etc, I turn these off) and get far too confident in the bikes ability without knowing the limits of yours, hence why I think novice track days are a superb idea to get a feel for your skill and if you mess up it’s in relative safety and not crashing into a tree or worse.
Personally I’d pass your CBT, then get a few lessons with a professional rider who’ll take the time to answer your questions and also demonstrate various situations out on the road.
There’s some very very good tutors out there.
One can get far too used to all the new fangled safety systems on a bike (traction control, anti wheelie etc etc, I turn these off) and get far too confident in the bikes ability without knowing the limits of yours, hence why I think novice track days are a superb idea to get a feel for your skill and if you mess up it’s in relative safety and not crashing into a tree or worse.
Personally I’d pass your CBT, then get a few lessons with a professional rider who’ll take the time to answer your questions and also demonstrate various situations out on the road.
There’s some very very good tutors out there.
Just get him to get a days insurance so he can ride it back for you.
Plenty of companies offer that service.
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Along with proper training, I highly recommend reading "Motorcycle roadcraft: the police rider's handbook". I read it when I first passed, and got the newer edition a few years ago and read it again. Read, ride to test, and develop understanding of concepts.
My first bike (SV650) was without ABS and I did manage to lock the front and fall off, through entirely my fault. I got a bike with ABS for my next bike, as I was wary. I never rode that bike particularly hard (F800ST), but it was nice to know it was there. I then got a K1300S (also with ABS), and started learning how to ride. I had the ABS kick in with that a couple of times and it was fairly rudimentary. You definitely know it's doing its thing on that bike. Now I have a KTM 1290 GT and I think it's kicked in once, and is much more refined.
Appreciating weight transfer and stuff is useful too. At least for my brain. I know there are two ways to get to full pressure on the lever (plus pedal ahem), and one way results in definitely locking up, and the other doesn't.
Whilst we're here, someone please remind me that swapping my 1290 GT for a probably-early-with-teething-issues R1300GS is a backward move yes!
My first bike (SV650) was without ABS and I did manage to lock the front and fall off, through entirely my fault. I got a bike with ABS for my next bike, as I was wary. I never rode that bike particularly hard (F800ST), but it was nice to know it was there. I then got a K1300S (also with ABS), and started learning how to ride. I had the ABS kick in with that a couple of times and it was fairly rudimentary. You definitely know it's doing its thing on that bike. Now I have a KTM 1290 GT and I think it's kicked in once, and is much more refined.
Appreciating weight transfer and stuff is useful too. At least for my brain. I know there are two ways to get to full pressure on the lever (plus pedal ahem), and one way results in definitely locking up, and the other doesn't.
Whilst we're here, someone please remind me that swapping my 1290 GT for a probably-early-with-teething-issues R1300GS is a backward move yes!
GS is better at everything except bragging rights.
Roadcraft is indeed an excellent publication, but it has to be read along with advanced training. I've seen too many people misapply the principles and get themselves into trouble.
Yeah I've had the latest GS offroad for a week in Portugal and very much liked it. And it was great on road, even on Karoo 4s. I had a 1250GS for a year too. My main shallow gripe tbh is I love the noise the KTM v twins make and whilst some love the GS sound, I do not.
Pretty sure I'll still end up back on one though
.
I might pop into Bahnstormer as I want to see how faffable they are now with regard to setup. I do enjoy my Track Mode, and hope the GS can be set up with an equally aggressive throttle response. Maybe the XR is better aligned for that kind of silliness.
Agree re the book. I got more from it 2nd time round after having done some of that training lark.
Pretty sure I'll still end up back on one though
.I might pop into Bahnstormer as I want to see how faffable they are now with regard to setup. I do enjoy my Track Mode, and hope the GS can be set up with an equally aggressive throttle response. Maybe the XR is better aligned for that kind of silliness.
Agree re the book. I got more from it 2nd time round after having done some of that training lark.
Bonus of having a 22 year old motorcycle, I don't have to lol.
To be fair, if I could magic one of those on to my bike it would be ABS. mainly rear wheel if anything but I sort of have it by not changing the brake fluid on that one, ever......
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It's all relative. They're both excellent bikes. I might be a little biased as my last KTM (990 SMR) would render my defining male parts completely numb after 30 minutes, and would throw a tank slapper at any throttle setting that wasn't <25% or 100% on. It was mental.Yeah I've had the latest GS offroad for a week in Portugal and very much liked it. And it was great on road, even on Karoo 4s. I had a 1250GS for a year too. My main shallow gripe tbh is I love the noise the KTM v twins make and whilst some love the GS sound, I do not.
Pretty sure I'll still end up back on one though
I might pop into Bahnstormer as I want to see how faffable they are now with regard to setup. I do enjoy my Track Mode, and hope the GS can be set up with an equally aggressive throttle response. Maybe the XR is better aligned for that kind of silliness.
Agree re the book. I got more from it 2nd time round after having done some of that training lark.
If they made a new GS or RT with the original clocks and most of the electronic guff removed (except the screen...) I'd buy one tomorrow.
Aha yeah I came to KTM after they started toning things down a bit I think. I recall the Mk I 1290R being insane, and my GT I believe is based on the Mk II and somewhat less mad. Although the Track Pack pushes it slightly closer to that needing a lot of respect thing.
I just did 3,000 miles across a bit of Vosges and Luxembourg though so part of me wanted an armchair for the boring bits. And more wind protection, which I'm still working on. And to get more miles out of the rear tyre! I've got a less constrained trip (read: 2 instead of 4 of us, and similar pace) in a few weeks though, so I will see if I come back still hankering for that boxer.
Are you on a GS now @Scuzi?
On a 12 year old RT now. Bought it for a song and I really struggle to justify spending £20k on an upgrade. I don’t think I’ll ever sell it.
Ah that's the only 'traditional' BMW I've yet to try. A friend has the 1250 version and keeps trying to get me to give it a go!
I concur on the monies. I had a quick check of 1300GSs last night and they are nearly all still hanging around that 20k mark. When I consider the KTM depreciation and the mileage I do, mine is probably worth 5-6k. As i'm already on one of the best bikes for my usage, I doubt I'll be swapping any time soon. Especially when the 1390 GT - if it ever appears - will likely be keenly priced and hilarious. If I was considering/on a Japanese bike I could make snarky comments about BMW or KTM reliability/new model teething issues :/.
OK we've got MotoGP today, and I'm going to start working out how to make my KTM screen work like a GS screen.
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Neither, I should think. ABS is not a miracle worker but sure is effective in the right scenario. You can stop just as well as without though if you are well practiced with progressive braking.
Watch the FortNine video on ABS and see how he manipulates braking to stop effectively and efficiently. We should all be practicing our emergency stops semi-regularly.
Honestly find yourself a quiet road and practice emergency stops for an hour every now and then. You'll be surprised at how much welly you can give a front brake before anything lets go. ABS, for me, is for emergency braking only, and even then I think I've only activated it twice in the two years I've been on this bike. Knowing the limits of your tyre is far, far more effective than any ABS system will ever be, and by practicing your emergency stops you'll also build your confidence which in turn will reduce your panic-grabs when those inevitable uh-oh moments hit.
I'm yet to do it on this bike but I used to do stoppies all the time when I was a wee lad. Knowing the absolute limits of your bike is the most confidence inspiring thing you can learn imo, once you're perfectly "in tune" with the machine it elevates your riding to a level that not many can claim to have.
That being said, it did cost me quite a few crashes and a broken collar bone to get there. I'm yet to hit that point on this bike, but I'm getting closer all the time.
I'm yet to do it on this bike but I used to do stoppies all the time when I was a wee lad. Knowing the absolute limits of your bike is the most confidence inspiring thing you can learn imo, once you're perfectly "in tune" with the machine it elevates your riding to a level that not many can claim to have.
That being said, it did cost me quite a few crashes and a broken collar bone to get there. I'm yet to hit that point on this bike, but I'm getting closer all the time.
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My current bike doesn't have ABS. It worried me to start with but I needn't have worried. I've done a couple of urgent stops and it wasn't a problem.