I very very much notice the lack of it going back to games which don't have it! sadly a lot of implementations so far don't properly use advanced features of path tracing but instead use it to paper over where traditional techniques fall down - multiple bounced light with colour transfer and indirect lighting, accurate real time specular highlights, etc. are much more of a wow factor when used to their best.
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What do gamers actually think about Ray-Tracing?
- Thread starter Purgatory
- Start date
I very very much notice the lack of it going back to games which don't have it! sadly a lot of implementations so far don't properly use advanced features of path tracing but instead use it to paper over where traditional techniques fall down - multiple bounced light with colour transfer and indirect lighting, accurate real time specular highlights, etc. are much more of a wow factor when used to their best.
It's interesting seeing how games differ with their approach and output with RT.
AC Shadows looks like a completely different game with RT lighting, it looks like a genuine 'next-gen' title. Meanwhile, Death Stranding 2 looks as good, if not better, than AC Shadows and doesn't use any RT at all!
It's as much about how it's implemented vs. the impact it has. I loved it in AC Shadows, that was probably the first title for me that I found it noticeable. Otherwise, I don't really use it in anything else. The biggest shame for me is the performance hit - but with the improvements to DLSS and FSR4 it does negate it a little. I can either play a game at 90fps or so with no RT or upscaling - or I can use RT and upscaling and still play at 90fps.
The Finals supports it - but I play at 'competitive' settings with everything set to low apart from view distance and textures at 'Epic' - so it's a bit wasted on me there. I've seen/heard from others that it does look fantastic in that game though, particularly because of how the destruction impacts so much in that game.
AC Shadows looks like a completely different game with RT lighting, it looks like a genuine 'next-gen' title. Meanwhile, Death Stranding 2 looks as good, if not better, than AC Shadows and doesn't use any RT at all!
It's as much about how it's implemented vs. the impact it has. I loved it in AC Shadows, that was probably the first title for me that I found it noticeable. Otherwise, I don't really use it in anything else. The biggest shame for me is the performance hit - but with the improvements to DLSS and FSR4 it does negate it a little. I can either play a game at 90fps or so with no RT or upscaling - or I can use RT and upscaling and still play at 90fps.
The Finals supports it - but I play at 'competitive' settings with everything set to low apart from view distance and textures at 'Epic' - so it's a bit wasted on me there. I've seen/heard from others that it does look fantastic in that game though, particularly because of how the destruction impacts so much in that game.
Soldato
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Somewhat cheaper, yes, but keep in mind inflation, higher cost of production (each node is more expensive), more vRAM, higher quality PCB and everything that goes with it since power requirements are higher, cooler, etc.
Seems like good old "640K ought to be enough for anybody"
Funny enough, as the market and even AMD moves, towards RT, in your hypothetical scenario, people would have moved back to RT from that magical "400% faster" raster.
That's the future, you're basically fighting progress.
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AC is a big open world densely packed game though whereas Death Stranding is open world, but it's rarely densely packed, a dynamic open world with a lot of detail to ray trace around, especially RTGI, is very demanding but the results speak for themselves. Do people remember Witcher 3 before the next gen upgrade which added RTGI? Yeah that's what even early RT does to an ancient game, it's transformative.
The reason Death Stranding looks so good is because of its simplicity, Decima engine works well for that, but at the same time the screen space flaws are pretty obvious like on reflections, the game has been built around this inabilities in the engine so you notice them as little as possible, which means gameplay isn't as dynamically ranging in terms of visuals as they otherwise could have been had even just RTGI and RT shadows been added.
Horizon uses the same engine and the difference here is Horizon is very dense in vegetation and detail vs DS, it manages to look great, especially the latest releases of the game, but again, the screen space flaws are more obvious here because the game world has a lot of reflections and there's no dynamic shadow or light casting from emissive sources, which would have looked incredible in that game world if they added RTGI.
If I've just read a comparison between a PS5P running raster v Nv's 90 series RT'ing, the cost disparity is literally confirming the stark reality of in regards to RT'ing hitting mainstream argument.
Which leaves me wondering if this year's GOTY will require the use of RT'ing by default?
Which leaves me wondering if this year's GOTY will require the use of RT'ing by default?
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What kind of post is this? Get with the program bro. Nvidia have like around 90% market share and are evil!
Support the underdog. Support poor AMD!
Every post going forth I expect you to put down Nvidia and find ways of bigging up AMD!
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AMD said F RT years ago, they get what has come their way, which ironically is no hardware RT
Nvidia get flack because they are greedy scalpers themselves.
Long and short of it.
Yes. Now get supporting AMD!
DLSS 4 vs FSR4? Can't see the difference etc
The other way around where the GPU and driver supported off-loading some of the heavy weight maths to a dedicated card can work or if a 3rd party provided an API for that and persuaded the industry to use it - a 3rd party coming in doing it of their own accord would have to intercept calls and transfer a lot of data from the GPU to make it work which would likely not result in a performance boost.
The heavy maths behind ray tracing is very similar to the processing the old PhysX card did - lots of vector maths and intersection tests, etc.
I'm not fighting progress, just my opinion on the current state. I'm always fully in with all new tech. Bought into 5 series to mess with mfg. Like i said, as a tech enthusiast since before 3dfx, i like RT, but do think RT is overhyped and would hesitate to recommend to my more casual gamer friends at the current price to performance..
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So you do understand that RT isn't the issue, it's GPU pricing, which both AMD and Nvidia are scalping people on, AMD is overpriced because it has no real RT performance yet wants to charge you £900 for not even high end GPUs, Nvidia because it thinks twice that for high end if acceptable and nothing in the middle really fully realises actual good performance without introducing latency (MFG).
So relatively speaking, both vendors are overpriced in their respective lanes. Intel is the only bang for buck brand currently, but then it lacks the bells and whistles, but is priced accordingly.
Having an opinion on RT is not relevant, then, the core issue is GPU pricing.
So relatively speaking, both vendors are overpriced in their respective lanes. Intel is the only bang for buck brand currently, but then it lacks the bells and whistles, but is priced accordingly.
Having an opinion on RT is not relevant, then, the core issue is GPU pricing.
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Yes pricing is a big factor, but outside of a handful of games in 7-8yrs it doesn't transform games like the hype makes out, hence the overhyped. Never seen 1 new gfx technique get so much attention for so many years. The hype is so high that at the prices, there will be many disappointed especially non enthusiasts. Hence, why i would hesitate to recommend RT to them. My nephew and friends turn it off as they prefer the performance with it off. RT is indeed the future, just atm it shows glimpses but isn't a must have yet.
How much do people think is a fair price to pay for Ray Tracing on a GPU?
For example if you could get both Ray Tracing and non Ray Tracing versions of the 5090, I think the difference between the two should be about £50
For example if you could get both Ray Tracing and non Ray Tracing versions of the 5090, I think the difference between the two should be about £50
£50? Seems a little random a number and a bit pointless too surely given that raw raster performance between a 5090 and a 4090 isn't that big, it's in RT where the gap is wider, but even then not a huge amount if we forget that MFG exists but instead use Lossless Scaling on all cards instead to give an even baseline for generated frames vs actual frames performance.
The 5090 draws more power, give a 4090 the same power and the gap between the two is even smaller still.
The 5090 draws more power, give a 4090 the same power and the gap between the two is even smaller still.
Wut? Who on earth would buy the gimped model just to save £50 when you're already spending the best part of £2k
The difference would need to be much greater to tempt buyers who aren't too fussed about RT.
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I came from 3 successive generations of Nvidia cards, GTX 970, GTX 1070, RTX 2070S, you see a pattern of where i buy and i used to upgrade every generation, i have successive ATI / AMD and Nvidia cards long before that too.
The E****ification for me started with the RTX 3070, 30% faster than the 2070S and still 8GB, i already had a couple of games where that 8GB VRam buffer was was a problem for the 2070S never mind a GPU 30% more powerful, of which 30% is also not good, so for the fist time in a decade or more i skipped a generation.
Then along comes the RTX 4070, over £600 for one with a not completely junk cooler, 65% faster than my 2070S, that's good, but over £600 and still only 12GB, at this point i wanted 16GB.
So now i waited just a little longer to see if the RX 7800 XT rumours were true.
Well, This https://www.sapphiretech.com/en/consumer/pulse-radeon-rx-7800-xt-16g-gddr6 entered the market at £480, a compact design with a good cooler and an S-Tier PCB, really high quality, compared with a 4070 with a D-Tier PCB and an E-Tier cooler at £100 more.
The 2070S became £100 more than the 1070 before it (loved the 1070, IMO the last great Nvidia card) for its Ray Tracing, it was not completely useless for RT, it couldn't do Metro Exodus with RT but it could do Far Cry 6 with RT, so hit and miss... its fine for first gen RT, you could use it.
The 3070 then became all about DLSS, you were supposed to accept that it wasn't really a better card than what it replaced because it had DLSS, for me that's where the E****ification of Nvidia's GPU's starts.
The RX 7800 XT has 2X the performance of the 2070S it replaced including in Ray Tracing, the Nvidia alternative for Ray Tracing was the RTX 4060 Ti 16GB, overall when you include Wokong and Cyberpunk the 7800 XT is 15% faster, and more than that in just raster, its = to a 4070 in raster for £100 less, £150 is you want one that isn't garbage tier, which i do.
Drivers: the AMD Driver UI and features is just better than even Nvidia's new one, which the internet is full of complaints that Nvidia new driver control panel is laggy and buggy, AMD's isn't, swapping the 2070S for the RX 7800 XT also fixed the problem i had with black checkerboard pattern in Chrome products like Google Chrome and Discord, Nvidia ignore this problem for years, there are plenty of unanswered complaints about it online, google it.
I've run this GPU for about 18 months now, in terms of reliability its been perfect, it has never put a foot wrong, plug it in and forget about it, i cannot say that about any Nvidia card i had, for as boring as that is its how it should be, it also plays all my games beautifully smooth, its so smooth.... its the first thing i noticed as a difference between it and any Nvidia card i had before it.
As for Ray Tracing, for a sub £500 card i would rate its Ray Tracing performance as excellent, for example Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition at 1440P on the 2070S was unplayable, and you couldn't even turn RT off in that, the RX 7800 XT is happy to run along at 80 to 100 FPS 1440P native with everything cranked to the max, Doom Eternal 4K 100 FPS everything cranked to the max.... no problem, and so on...
There is not a "40% difference in price" between AMD's and Nvidia GPU's, especially now, but this gaslighting nonsense is what people do so they can always say you should buy Nvidia over AMD, no matter how crap and how expensive they get. This card is a better card than the price Nvidia equivalent, ***** WAY better.
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