******Official Star Citizen / Squadron 42 Thread******

[Noxia]

That was just one example. Something that stuck with me on another thread on pvp Vs pve was "PVP players need PVE players, PVE players don't need PVP players"

Goes back to the whole "I don't play to be someone else's content". I don't know what the answer is, I just know for my preference I want PVP do be something I opt in to, ie go to Pyro.

There is probably a balance to be had or even a third option, like guaranteed PvP (lawless zones etc) guaranteed no PVP (reflected with more restrictive activities and or rewards but shouldn't penalise people). And some kind of middle tier like PVP is possible but unlikely.
I have absolutely no idea how any of this would work by the way, I'm just throwing stuff out there.

I suppose there's also the old thing about if you try and please everybody you end up pleasing nobody. And I think the devs are partly to blame for this because it's still not exactly clear what the main focus and stuff is going to be, like who is the intended audience here? And that in itself of course can change over time like anything

 

[humbug]

PVP is legitimate game play in an MMO, of course it is, but as many MMO's have had to learn the hard way if that isn't properly managed the 1% will ruin the game for the other 99% and kill the game outright.

Most MMO's are primarily none PVP or PVE with dedicated PVP area's, it was not always like this but as an effective way to manage MMO's it is now the default architecture of modern MMO's.

 

[Noxia]

Yeah my only real experience of it was back in Vanilla wow days. Having PVP on Playing on a PvP server, could be fun when you bumped into random player or two, it was NOT fun when a load of level 60s (in a 30 zone) would kill quest npcs so people couldn't hand in or get quests, spawn camp lower level players they could kill in one hit etc.

Though again, it could be fun when it was a fairly even scrap of a similar amount of players all around the same level. I think that was in 'contested zones' as in both factions had quest hubs there. In a few home zones you wouldn't be flagged for PVP unless you turned it on, but an enemy player invading said zone would be rightfully auto flagged.

Then I think about the stories I used to read on PC gamer about Eve online where it was basically just two huge player guilds/corps/whatever controlling most of the null-sec space.

And for SC something like instanced battlegrounds doesn't really fit in with the rest of the seamless universe. Unless you had to fly somewhere specific to sign up for like an 'arena combat' type thing or races.

 

[humbug]

Yeah my only real experience of it was back in Vanilla wow days. Having PVP on could be fun when you bumped into random player or two, it was NOT fun when a load of level 60s (in a 30 zone) would kill quest npcs so people couldn't hand in or get quests, spawn camp lower level players they could kill in one hit etc.

Though again, it could be fun when it was a fairly even scrap of a similar amount of players all around the same level. I think that was in 'contested zones' as in both factions had quest hubs there. In a few home zones you wouldn't be flagged for PVP unless you turned it on, but an enemy player invading said zone would be rightfully auto flagged.

New World, a game that i love.... you join a faction and if you wish to PVP other faction members anywhere you flag yourself as PVP, you can turn it on and off anywhere any time, if you have not flagged yourself as PVP no one can hurt you, unless you go in to a dedicated PVP zone, then you're auto PVP flagged and you can't turn it off.

Sometimes, when i feel like it i turn my PVP flag on.

 

[Noxia]

Again I don't know the answers here but in my mind, high risk high reward should apply for everyone.

Want to try and blow a hauler up in 'secure space' sure, but there needs to be a system whereby this carries risk that fits in with the world. Not an automatic bounty on your head when nobody else saw what happened, (like oblivion guards when you steal something) perhaps a way to send distress signal if you get pvp'd, that attracts sec forces, fluff wise they read some black box signal and see footage what happened, and or have something they can trace back to the player that did it. Or if another player sees they can 'report to authorities'
You could also make that fun by having a way for the attacker to somehow grab or disable that black box but that it though should carry a huge risk or be very difficult (how long you stay there the more chance you have of being caught). Pilot is then blacklisted for so many weeks or days and will be attacked on sight and therefore can only scuttle back to Pyro or whatever.

See that all kind of sounded good to me as I was writing it and then I realised I've just made a mechanic of a non-consensual PVP when I said it should be opt in. Maybe making it so risky people generally won't bother is the compromise. Could Brainstorm this stuff for a week and still not be any clearer lol.

 

[humbug]

If i want 700+ level gear in New World i have to go to Cutlass Keys, this is a dedicated PVP zone and it is brutal, but its the only place i can get gear rated over 700, high risk, high reward.

As you said before, Pyro, a completely lawless system where you can be engaged by other players anytime anywhere, its where the most valuable rescores should be, it should be worth it to go there, high risk, high reward.

Stanton should be completely safe unless you chose to PVP, but also not where you can get the most valuable gear.

 

[humbug]

I see you spent $1000 or more on this game, you're an idiot, buy more ships plox..... needs more sponduules.

 

[Curlyriff]

What? All I ever saw on Reddit was people complaining about other players exploiting rules/bugs etc to gank them, regular ganking under the charade of roleplaying pirates, abusing the third person camera, stopping players achieving events by blocking areas with cargo etc.

Always said players are their own worst enemy. If they can't kill you they'll work out some other way to be a dick.

LMAO not even five posts down.

I'm sure plenty have and as said it depends on the content you do and when. People get ranked when they jump straight to the new mission or feature etc. But if you play chill gameplay loops you can do them almost exclusively without any issue if you just head of to mine/salvage and such.

 

[Curlyriff]

New World, a game that i love.... you join a faction and if you wish to PVP other faction members anywhere you flag yourself as PVP, you can turn it on and off anywhere any time, if you have not flagged yourself as PVP no one can hurt you, unless you go in to a dedicated PVP zone, then you're auto PVP flagged and you can't turn it off.

Sometimes, when i feel like it i turn my PVP flag on.

That only works because there isn't a shared economy system though as mining and salvage and that would just allow full build of wealth with no risk.

It's one those things you will always struggle to balance. But the low sec and high sec should genuinely work if they get it right.

 

[bigmike20vt]

That only works because there isn't a shared economy system though as mining and salvage and that would just allow full build of wealth with no risk.

It's one those things you will always struggle to balance. But the low sec and high sec should genuinely work if they get it right.

given SC will sell stuff for cash anyway it will still be possible to get builds with no risk. Therefore would it really matter if a player got some shiny stuff with out the risk of PvP? (there would always be the risk of npcs and the environment)
IF CIG gets the balance right that could be good.... but what mmo has actually managed it so far ? I can't think of any. pvpers would probably say EVE but as a PVE player I can't stand EVE

 

[Curlyriff]

given SC will sell stuff for cash anyway it will still be possible to get builds with no risk. Therefore would it really matter if a player got some shiny stuff with out the risk of PvP? (there would always be the risk of npcs and the environment)
IF CIG gets the balance right that could be good.... but what mmo has actually managed it so far ? I can't think of any. pvpers would probably say EVE but as a PVE player I can't stand EVE

It is more the resource gathering and hording since they are finite to area/locations. Things like someone is salvaging a really critical when you can't say pirate those goods which is a massive gameplay loop or that people would just be able to resource drain locations since shards are linked meaning others would not be able to ever get those resources. Think if a large org, say Test that has tens of thousands of members all went on the PvE server and just removed all resources from a planet because they can do so unimpeded. That is really hard to balance against unless you are suggesting you keep all the economies separate and CIG have to track two complete economies with two complete back ends running it all?

Eve I don't find bad as a PVE player tbh, the low and high sec works well if you stick to them honestly and you use your starmap to review where you relative to main player density. Again you are only able to minimise it (and it is really minimised in high sec areas because of CONCORD almost instant response to I believe it is 19s max in those areas (spawn instantly)) but if you follow some basics you can do so. And with the ideas CIG have stated and suggested I expect that will be similar. If that doesn't work for you then yes I feel you may be out of luck but this has been a large known principle since around 2016. Not saying you will/can enjoy that game but the actual PvE and security can be really solid in it as long as you know what you are doing and choose where to go carefully.

 

[Raumarik]

I see you spent $1000 or more on this game, you're an idiot, buy more ships plox..... needs more sponduules.

Depends, I'd still say I got thousands of hours of entertainment out of Star Citizen, met lots of nice people, had bags of fun. I genuinely don't feel like I've lost out value for money / hour.

I do however feel mislead that they are training the fun from a game, fundamentally that's why we play and each update seems to make it worse not better. I don't care about promised things, there's no slack to give.

I've made money from SC over the years, I'm in profit thanks to early grey market sales but I'd still like them to produce the product they kickstarter campaigned for.

 

[Curlyriff]

Depends, I'd still say I got thousands of hours of entertainment out of Star Citizen, met lots of nice people, had bags of fun. I genuinely don't feel like I've lost out value for money / hour.

I do however feel mislead that they are training the fun from a game, fundamentally that's why we play and each update seems to make it worse not better. I don't care about promised things, there's no slack to give.

I've made money from SC over the years, I'm in profit thanks to early grey market sales but I'd still like them to produce the product they kickstarter campaigned for.

This although have enjoyed 4.3 when checking out at mates (still no PC) and when it's working almost as intended I still get same enjoyment out of it as 5yrs ago tbh. But course burnout etc and there aren't huge new gameplay loops generally. I've certainly played a lot less than you for instance.

The noticeable parts are missing though with engineering, reputation, hacking, proper mission systems etc (4.3 is like 60% there with the latest missions) and of course the updated flight model and damage systems. Those are so fundamental to improve what we have now with current missions, gameplay loops and such to make it feel more complete.

Base building and crafting are course huge but kind of completely new loops that use the current ones as their backbone.

But honestly feel in a couple of years all those above noted will be in the game in some sort of tier 1 system. And hopefully we have at least Nyx system in a couple of years too if not Castra as well. Terra I feel is much more of a ways off.

 

[humbug]

Depends, I'd still say I got thousands of hours of entertainment out of Star Citizen, met lots of nice people, had bags of fun. I genuinely don't feel like I've lost out value for money / hour.

I do however feel mislead that they are training the fun from a game, fundamentally that's why we play and each update seems to make it worse not better. I don't care about promised things, there's no slack to give.

I've made money from SC over the years, I'm in profit thanks to early grey market sales but I'd still like them to produce the product they kickstarter campaigned for.

Over 13 years...

Works out at $78, or at todays exchange rate £57.81 + VAT = £69.37 per year, i don't know how many hours i have in it but my guess would be around 10,000 and i'm still playing it and enjoying it, right now i have Microtec and Hurston done on the rescores drive event and i'm currently half way through ArcCorp,

I think i had my monies worth and the fact that i still play and enjoy the game 13 years later i think is testament to how good this game actually is, when it works. There is no denying there is nothing else like it, i enjoy other games too, recently Dune, i have played New World on and off including recently with it adding new content, i played the BF6 Beta and i will be buying it, but none of these games will have anything like the staying power for me as Star Citizen, not even fractionally close.

I have also made lots of what i consider good friends through SC, some in this post, others not and all great people.

 

[pete910]

Sorry to break it to you but the majority of the funds they got is from sc players, not from sq42 backers.

Hate to break it to you but, there is know way for you or I to know what all the individual backers was backing for at the time. It may very well be for both to a lot of folk .

 

[jonneymendoza]

Hate to break it to you but, there is know way for you or I to know what all the individual backers was backing for at the time. It may very well be for both to a lot of folk .

So people buying idris are doing it for Sq42?

 

[pete910]

So people buying idris are doing it for Sq42?

Does that not go toward SQ42 dev as well

 

[jonneymendoza]

Does that not go toward SQ42 dev as well

Of course it does but the majority of people who pledge for ships. Do so because they are interested in the sc mmo side. You can't fly your idris in Sq42 or any ship u pledge to. Most people pledge so they can use it in sc pu...

Most people don't spend thousands on ships they can't use in the SQ42 game. Especially the industrial ships.

You are crazy to think most people who have given cig almost a billion do it for Sq42

 

[pete910]

Of course it does but the majority of people who pledge for ships. Do so because they are interested in the sc mmo side. You can't fly your idris in Sq42 or any ship u pledge to. Most people pledge so they can use it in sc pu...

Most people don't spend thousands on ships they can't use in the SQ42 game. Especially the industrial ships.

You are crazy to think most people who have given cig almost a billion do it for Sq42

You are crazy to think to somehow know what others are thinking .

You are failing to see my point to boot, in the end you just don't know either way!

 

[Calin Banc]

indeed. well made npcs can be programmed to fill a role and they stick to it. in principle players can be far more interesting however (for me) the negatives of the plonker player type far outweigh any benefit. Also whilst I am happy to play within the spirit of a game and ignore holes in the ruleset if obviously unintended a certain player type will use them to grief other players. in elite the only mmo game with potential PvP I really play FD spent so much time trying to stop them unfortunately the rules they tried to make ended up probably making it worse and surely took dev time away from other things.
I would much prefer an option to allow me to play on a server without PvP and only other like minded players and let those who want potential player conflict play together. unfortunately this does then mean you need very well made npcs to keep things interesting but also PvP players often complain the loudest because despite IME them claiming to be a huge majority of the player base OTOH they also at the same time complain that the PvP area in such games are too empty because of other players "hiding" from them.
unfortunately minimising PvP is another feature which appears to have been culled

I usually just check the "invisible/invincible" setting whenever possible or just play in PvE stuff - of course, leaving aside the PvP by default games like BF, CoD, etc.
Best experience is either PvE alone or alongside some people. I don't believe SC have a fix for PvP / trolling people.

Anyway, thinking of it, the big issue will be the exploration. Unless they go No Man Sky (and they can, they do have the procedural stuff to generate planets), exploration will be made irrelevant quickly with just a few systems available, leaving a lot of people with, practically, "no job" and money spent on ships that are more or less useless. Yeeey.

Of course it does but the majority of people who pledge for ships. Do so because they are interested in the sc mmo side. You can't fly your idris in Sq42 or any ship u pledge to. Most people pledge so they can use it in sc pu...

Most people don't spend thousands on ships they can't use in the SQ42 game. Especially the industrial ships.

You are crazy to think most people who have given cig almost a billion do it for Sq42

Freelancer had its moments of "free roam", especially at the end. I see no reason why you can't have all the ships in game, accessible that way. Of course, there's the "milking the verse way, so it's not doable", but that's another story