Junior Doctors Strikes

jpaul said:
How is your accent? - both parents/Aunts, of whom one has hearing difficulties find it difficult to understand indian/Pakistani doctors;
yes if the were brummies/Scots they might have same issue - the lost productivity wholly down to language must multiply up across NHS.
(the rain in spain ...)

As meddling Monk says moneys should be redirected to more deserving carer professionals - have a sibling who does this.
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I had an Indian professor during my astrophysics degree. Couldn't understand a word he said.... and I'm Indian :cry: Still, got my degree so I guess it's fine....
 
inferno said:
Bringing in foreign doctors from god knows where is absolutely mental. When I go to the hospital I want to be seen by a Brit or an equivalent with similar levels of training not someone imported from the 3rd world who might kill me.
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If we stopped doing that, we would have entire wards without doctors, I very rarely see a white british doctor now, they like a dying breed. The current GP situation would also be childs play as well compared to the new reality, similar with dentists.
I have never felt like I am in danger so I do think your comment is very far fetched, there is standards still required to employ doctors.
 
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chrcoluk said:
If we stopped doing that, we would have entire wards without doctors, I very rarely see a white british doctor now, they like a dying breed. The current GP situation would also be childs play as well compared to the new reality, similar with dentists.
I have never felt like I am in danger so I do think your comment is very far fetched, there is standards still required to employ doctors.
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How come we have doctors and nurses saying they can’t get jobs whilst we bring in people from abroad? If we need doctors we should be recruiting from within than getting them from abroad because the healthcare system is almost like an essential utility.

My friend who is a surgeon says there can be issues with some of the doctors and nurses coming from abroad. He doesn’t agree with junior doctors asking for payrises but he does think the situation with them not getting work is not right.
 
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inferno said:
How come we have doctors and nurses saying they can’t get jobs whilst we bring in people from abroad?
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we shipped them in - recruitment drives abroad with promises of riches, to the detriment of the health services they left, and Brits (if they are unitelligible)

what is the prioritization for british citizens for places in UK medical colleges too ?, or is that like other degrees where foreign financed students get priority.
 
tamzzy said:
TBF, there are some dodgy ones out there.
Personally, I've referred one to the GMC as they were obviously lying on their CV and this was apparent within the first hour of meeting them.
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There is, but that does include white British, sometime last year was a white British female doctor in the news who had a very high failure rate on surgery but the NHS wouldnt take action.
 
sidimmu said:
Sir Starmer seems to have bought his spine into work this week, good job!
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Good job? Really? You need to think broader. What is the impact of losing these training places? Was it not meant to ease the burden on our over-flowing healthcare system? Why use such a thing as a "bargaining chip" when it has such direct impact to our critical services? Was there no money elsewhere they could have used to cope with these strikes? Could they not have simply interrupted their policies to increase defence spending to 3.5% of GDP by 2035 briefly to avoid such a distasteful and self-harming move?
 
NVP said:
Good job? Really? You need to think broader.
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Funny how you now want to talk seriously.

Why are doctors the exception to this?
Why dont all public services hang their work over the governments heads for more rewards than the rest of public services and private companies? Because it causes more harm than good.

NVP said:
Was it not meant to ease the burden on our over-flowing healthcare system?
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Possibly, but its clear doctors dont care about that, evidently if they're happy for it to be thrown away.

NVP said:
Could they not have simply interrupted their policies to increase defence spending to 3.5% of GDP by 2035 briefly to avoid such a distasteful and self-harming move?
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So we deliver their needs and wants without validation, then the residents do the same thing again next year, year after, like train drivers. Sounds very sensible, not.

NVP said:
"bargaining chip"
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That's how you deal with negotiations where the other party is threatening reductions in service and operations.
Critical to services you say, well maybe the doctors need to remember that too before they walk off and leave innocent patients at risk, it doesn't have to be this way, but the residents are the one's who have threatened this and moving forward with such action.
 
sidimmu said:
Funny how you now want to talk seriously.
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I generally do, you just don't seem to understand at times.

sidimmu said:
Why are doctors the exception to this?
Why dont all public services hang their work over the governments heads for more rewards than the rest of public services and private companies? Because it causes more harm than good.
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How are they an exception? Is this the only strike/protest you've ever heard of?

sidimmu said:
Possibly, but its clear doctors dont care about that, evidently if they're happy for it to be thrown away.
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What do you mean, "possibly"? That's the part that should be "clear" :cry: your conclusive logic works both ways, but one side was drastically more impactful - the Government chose to use this to barter, not the Drs/unions.

sidimmu said:
So we deliver their needs and wants without validation, then the residents do the same thing again next year, year after, like train drivers. Sounds very sensible, not.
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Oh my god, how dare we deliver the needs of the citizens when we can line the pockets of war-profiteers :rolleyes: Who should be prioritised by our government in your eyes?

sidimmu said:
That's how you deal with negotiations where the other party is threatening reductions in service and operations.
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You deal with strikers by punishing ordinary people? Please explain this logic, I'm having a hard time rationalising it.

sidimmu said:
Critical to services you say, well maybe the doctors need to remember that too before they walk off and leave innocent patients at risk, it doesn't have to be this way, but the residents are the one's who have threatened this and moving forward with such action.
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You appear to not understand why they are striking. Do you not see our healthcare system falling to pieces? Were you born here?
 
NVP said:
What do you mean, "possibly"? That's the part that should be "clear" :cry: your conclusive logic works both ways, but one side was drastically more impactful - the Government chose to use this to barter, not the Drs/unions.
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Incorrect, government took this approach to calm their outrageous demands.
I am glad they did such a thing and hope they do the same for the train drivers next time.

NVP said:
Oh my god, how dare we deliver the needs of the citizens when we can line the pockets of war-profiteers :rolleyes: Who should be prioritised by our government in your eyes?
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So you're happy for public services to hang the service over the head of regular patients?
What if it was the police who said "no we wont come out to support you during XXXX, because we are in protest with the government about our payrises which are greater than any other public service".
Cant wait to see your come back on this one.

NVP said:
You deal with strikers by punishing ordinary people? Please explain this logic, I'm having a hard time rationalising it.
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Its clear you're having a hard time rationalising it, dont worry, its okay.
the strikers are the ones punishing the patients for reference, dont take it any other way.
The residents could have said they are unhappy, wont agree and need to look at other ways to address this, instead of going towards a strike. Saying the gov are responsible for the outcome of patients over this period is some mental gymnastics, the government are trying to keep the NHS working without it getting fleeced anymore than it currently is.

NVP said:
You appear to not understand why they are striking. Do you not see our healthcare system falling to pieces? Were you born here?
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I am very aware of the healthcare system failing and I have stated that the reasons for protest are not strong enough to put patients at risk, you seem to agree that patients can have an even further increased risk during these 6 days of protest. I am aware of NHS issues as I have been involved in numerous NHS projects for the past 17 years.
Want to try again?
 
sidimmu said:
Incorrect, government took this approach to calm their outrageous demands.
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What's incorrect? Who chose to use this as a bargaining chip then if it was not the government?

Yes that was clearly the governments intentions, however it is their approach which is being seen as immoral, considering the impact. But Starmer chose this for a reason, slowly and slowly the NHS is being dismantled and here you are cheering it on.


sidimmu said:
So you're happy for public services to hang the service over the head of regular patients?
What if it was the police who said "no we wont come out to support you during XXXX, because we are in protest with the government about our payrises which are greater than any other public service".
Cant wait to see your come back on this one.
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Yes :confused: The freedom to strike prevents exploitation. Whether the reason to strike is sound or not generally factors in to negotiations and their outcomes.

Please look up the definition and history of a "striking" as you appear vastly ignorant of them and their purpose.


sidimmu said:
Its clear you're having a hard time rationalising it, dont worry, its okay.
the strikers are the ones punishing the patients for reference, dont take it any other way.
The residents could have said they are unhappy, wont agree and need to look at other ways to address this, instead of going towards a strike. Saying the gov are responsible for the outcome of patients over this period is some mental gymnastics, the government are trying to keep the NHS working without it getting fleeced anymore than it currently is.
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As usual, you've not understood. The government could have used money from many other, less critical, pots to cover the money needed to cop with these strikes, rather than pillaging from the NHS.

You seem to be only focussed on the Dr's striking, that's a huge no no to you because you feel they earn enough. That is for negotiation.

The bigger problem, the one I originally highlighted your cheerleading of, is the willingness of the Government to sacrifice these critically needed posts to cover the costs of the strikes.

Now do see how I find it hard to rationalise punishing innocent people for the actions of others? Probably not, I'd wager.


sidimmu said:
I am very aware of the healthcare system failing and I have stated that the reasons for protest are not strong enough to put patients at risk, you seem to agree that patients can have an even further increased risk during these 6 days of protest.
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I agree all should be allowed to strike, public or private. My gripe is not with them striking (well not this post, but you can freely scroll above and read where I have), it is with the governments continued disregard for the NHS which it has shown by using the 1,000 critically needed posts as throwaway.

sidimmu said:
I am aware of NHS issues as I have been involved in numerous NHS projects for the past 17 years.
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Maybe that's why it's been failing :cry:


sidimmu said:
Want to try again?
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Try what again? Answer your confusion, or call you up on nonsense? Sure, always here for you <3
 
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