Fake outrage..

Hagar said:
Yes you do. By working and contributing as a civic citizen. Whether you take out more than you put in is immaterial, by living here you contribute.
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Yeah but that's for myself. And I'd leave the UK in a heart beat if I could.

For me pride is something I've put effort into, by choice and achieved something I value.

I'm lucky to be born here. But not proud to be British.
 
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[FnG]magnolia said:
What? That's not very Conservative/me me me in approach. Account must be hacked.
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Actually it is, without going all political, it is the other lot who love excessive regulation, taxation and profligacy but usually in the wrong places. A proper working universal credit system is to be applauded but focussed appropriately. However i will get sacked by the mods for the P - word if I'm not careful.
 
413x said:
Yeah but that's for myself. And I'd leave the UK in a heart beat if I could.

For me pride is something I've put effort into, by choice and achieved something I value.

I'm lucky to be born here. But not proud to be British.
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Should no one be proud to be where they are from?
 
The real issue/debate here is that having historical figures on banknotes is now thought to be "divisive" - divisive to who exactly ? Have there been any complaints at all about this - has anyone had their feelings hurt ?

Who is pushing this agenda and why ?
 
GIBURROWS said:
Should no one be proud to be where they are from?
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Its personal.. Only if they feel it. I didn't contribute to all the bad or good things the UK has done in its history. So I don't feel guilty or proud. Just lucky.

Same way I don't believe that it's more important to give money to a UK citizen I don't know vs an immigrant. Just because someone was born in the UK, I don't feel I owe them more than someone from Kenya or wherever.
 
I could not care less who is on a banknote. I rarely use them these days anyway, only to tip my Sainsbury's delivery driver. Oh and when I get my hair cut at the local Turkish barber. Pretty sure there's something very dodgy going on there but they do a very good cut and service, so I don't care.
 
413x said:
Yeah but that's for myself. And I'd leave the UK in a heart beat if I could.

For me pride is something I've put effort into, by choice and achieved something I value.

I'm lucky to be born here. But not proud to be British.
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Honestly what's going on in our country?

I think we have a generation of people having it way to easy to have absolutely zero ability to recognise how good they have it. Or to have any pride in the country that's raised them, it's history and their ancestry that worked incredibly hard to provide these times.

How you can't be proud for the history that led you to these moments is beyond me.

Not a dig at you, but a few comments here and else where having a go at having any sort of national pride.

It's not about having self pride it's about having pride for what we and our ancestors have built. You weren't lucky to be born here, your ancestors worked their ******* arses off to create this future for you.

You wouldn't leave either, you know where you breads buttered like the rest of us.
 
slinxy said:
For those who don't know...
www.bbc.co.uk

Banknotes, beavers and a very British backlash

Politicians are furious Churchill will be replaced on banknotes. The RSPCA wants rats and pigeons to feature.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk

I was at the local Chinese getting a take away, one of the few times I carry cash with me.

While waiting, the discussion of using cash rather than tap to pay came up...

This lady... "I can't believe they have the nerve to remove Churchill from the tenner.."
Me: "Oh.. is he not on the fiver?..." going into pockets and checking my notes...
Lady: "I don't care, they shouldn’t be allowed to remove him!"
Me: "Don't they change the person every 10 years or so...?"
Lady: "They are not allowed to change him... don't they know what he did for this country!?"
Me under my breath and thanking the lord that my food is ready.. "you mean the racist that they booted out of office as soon as the can after the war?!"

How can someone be so upset about something that they know so little about... at least "Do your research" before forming an opinion..
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And then everyone clapped?
 
413x said:
Yeah but that's for myself. And I'd leave the UK in a heart beat if I could.

For me pride is something I've put effort into, by choice and achieved something I value.

I'm lucky to be born here. But not proud to be British.
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By your existence you contribute to the nations GDP, sad but true as it seems we cannot exclude growth from the economy (or even create it).

And you are right, in the mid nineteen sixties, i remember my parents concluding that to be born british was a very lucky thing. After spending a decade living and working in Africa.
 
413x said:
Its personal.. Only if they feel it. I didn't contribute to all the bad or good things the UK has done in its history. So I don't feel guilty or proud. Just lucky.

Same way I don't believe that it's more important to give money to a UK citizen I don't know vs an immigrant. Just because someone was born in the UK, I don't feel I owe them more than someone from Kenya or wherever.
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What university did you attend?
 
Begbie said:
Honestly what's going on in our country?

I think we have a generation of people having it way to easy to have absolutely zero ability to recognise how good they have it. Or to have any pride in the country that's raised them, it's history and their ancestry that worked incredibly hard to provide these times.

How you can't be proud for the history that led you to these moments is beyond me.

Not a dig at you, but a few comments here and else where having a go at having any sort of national pride.

It's not about having self pride it's about having pride for what we and our ancestors have built. You weren't lucky to be born here, your ancestors worked their ******* arses off to create this future for you.

You wouldn't leave either, you know where you breads buttered like the rest of us.
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That's an overly simplistic way of looking at a multifaceted issue.

It's easy enough indulge in some populist patriotism, but that can be a slippery slope to full on nationalism, bigotry and conflict. It's not just the obvious examples from WWII that demonstrate what can happen one group of people believe they are "better" and more entitled than others.

Anyway, how can someone really be proud of things that were nothing to do with them and happened before they existed? If your ancestors lived in (say) Germany for the last thousand years but your parents moved to England just before you were born, should you be proud of Germany or the UK?

That's without getting into the massive issue of history being written by the victors and the sanitised stories that become the publicly accepted version of historical truth. Should a person be proud of something that's a myth, or even an outright lie?

It does seem more logical to have pride in what you actually contribute and the causes you actively support.
 
Putting political people on the banknotes was the error in the first place.

Being proud to be British is an odd thing if you properly use the real definition of proud.
Unless of course you have actively done something of importance/significance yourself.
 
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Begbie said:
Honestly what's going on in our country?

I think we have a generation of people having it way to easy to have absolutely zero ability to recognise how good they have it. Or to have any pride in the country that's raised them, it's history and their ancestry that worked incredibly hard to provide these times.

How you can't be proud for the history that led you to these moments is beyond me.

Not a dig at you, but a few comments here and else where having a go at having any sort of national pride.

It's not about having self pride it's about having pride for what we and our ancestors have built. You weren't lucky to be born here, your ancestors worked their ******* arses off to create this future for you.

You wouldn't leave either, you know where you breads buttered like the rest of us.
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Its fine.

I don't have pride because I didn't contribute to any of that. I wasn't alive.
I don't care for things like legacy. The past is the past.

I'm not proud of the the cavemen that produced the first people. I'm not ashamed of the torture, rapes and pillaging. Nor am I proud winning WW2... Because none of those things were me.
 
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