Gang of boys who threw flour at disabled woman 'put under police protection for their safety'

yeah we need to bring back the feeling that its ok to punish your children, the problem is tho what is "too much"?

Some adults have been known to really beat up their kids.

School discipline is out of control in poor areas since the removal of the whip.
 
yeah we need to bring back the feeling that its ok to punish your children, the problem is tho what is "too much"?

I was at a house party where there was a new mum and baby present (or at least she was there for the early part of the evening - I don't hang around with crack head mum's who go partying with their new borns till 3am) anyway there was a Swedish girl present who didn't have a child herself but still took it upon herself to give the new mum some parenting advice. Apparently one school of thought in Sweden is to never say "no" to a baby/child and to just let them explore etc... I'm not quote sure about the justification for this... "something something negative reinforcement something something" was all I could gather. But apparently it is a thing in Sweden to not even attempt to correct your kids let alone discipline them. The sad part was that the new mum was lapping all this stuff up, smiling away etc.. "oh that's so interesting..." etc.. I really hope she was just humouring the girl because if that sort of thing carries on we're screwed. ****ing hippies!
 
The first one of the Dad's knew about it he marched his son to the police.

What else should he have done?

By the way how many people here have teenage boys?

I think people are more shocked about the attitudes of the parents, which causes further hate towards the group of kids.

As everyone says, young lads get up to mischief - i mean just look at the thread about naughty things you did back at school and see that half the members who've posted in there have done some horrendous things - including throwing bricks at cars, and putting concrete blocks on train tracks.

But when that one parent was only concerned about how it would ruin her sons birthday party, that's what really winds people up. Any responsible parent would have grounded him, sacked off the birthday party, and told him he was no longer getting his birthday presents.
 
Obviously the paper are going to focus on the ****** parent for maximum outrage.

Assuming the 5 boys have 2 parents, we don't actually know how 80% of the parents reacted.

We know that 1 said it would ruin her sons birthday
We know that 1 grounded their son indefinitely after marching him to the police station to confess.
 
I did plenty of stupid things as a kid but it'd never occur to me to directly assault someone for a bit of a laugh like this lot did.

I'd have got a proper belting for that along with being grounded, nothing for my birthday and nothing the following Christmas. :eek:
 
I did plenty of stupid things as a kid but it'd never occur to me to directly assault someone for a bit of a laugh like this lot did.

I'd have got a proper belting for that along with being grounded, nothing for my birthday and nothing the following Christmas. :eek:

I got grounded for 3 months for breaking a single fence panel and letting down a car tire
 
yeah we need to bring back the feeling that its ok to punish your children, the problem is tho what is "too much"?

Some adults have been known to really beat up their kids.

School discipline is out of control in poor areas since the removal of the whip.


The question always put forward is 'has things gotten worse because you cant physically discipline?'

I think that is the wrong way to think about it. Good parenting isn't about how hard you punish someone, that is a fairly archaic view. If kids are regularly misbehaving and lashing out, it's likely for a number of reasons, none of which are 'the fear of god has yet to be beaten into them'.



It is the sort of view in those countries, the prison system is similar in that view. Having said that, it is incredibly effective when it comes to correction and rehabilitation. Rather than focusing on a focus on strict punishment, they focus on what problems have turned these people on this path. Given their re-offending rates, its hard to argue with their logic - especially when you look at the other countries with a more archaic justice systems.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/nov/26/prison-sweden-not-punishment-nils-oberg

I think whether you discipline with a smack, a cane or harsh words - it makes little difference to shaping the individual if nurturing is not done correctly.
 
Anecdotal story incoming

My sister (40) made the choice that she would never punish her own kids with smacking etc

Her eldest is a druggy loser who calls her every name under the sun, smashes her house up, threatens to hit/stab her when he's angry. She called the police once and they said they can't help.

He's 16....

Thing is, choosing not to physically punish means nothing if you aren't also utilising other effective parenting methods.
 
She used the naughty step when they were little, and banning them from consoles for days/weeks etc depending on what they had done when they were older.

But I think she was a soft touch and more often than not gave in.
 
A persons behaviour comes from every part of their life, not just when they are punished. We put too much emphasis on punishment and the question is always 'how harsh do we have to be?'

A punishment is not very effective if the person's only reason to not do it again is because the punishment sucked and the offender doesn't change their view on what they were punished for.

Parents are nurturing children, not training gaurd dogs...
 
Respect is earned through struggle.

A lot of the kids today haven't had to struggle for anything. Everything is at their finger tips.

Lets bring back some public humiliation. I think that would actually be better than sticking them in prison.

At a time when the cops are only solving 1 in 10 crimes, its no wonder there are kids like this doing this kinda stuff. They can get away with it as nobody cares unless it makes the headlines. It's lucky they were so dumb that they uploaded the picture themselves. But how many other incidents like this go on with no uploaded picture or videos!? I would suggest a lot more.

Britain as become lawless. It as been for a long time. Older people, even 25+, seem to have a mindset from an older time, when the reality today isn't like that. Kids are testing todays boundaries and there are very few. If you are a 'bad lad' you can get away with more today with less punishment than you could do 20 or 30 years ago imho.
 
What I hate is a couple of my neighbours let their young kids run riot and scream at the top of their voice all day long. When I was that young it would never be tolerated. The parents don't seem to consider how annoying it is for everyone nearby.

We have laws against this for noisy dogs, we need them for kids as well now it seems.
 
What I hate is a couple of my neighbours let their young kids run riot and scream at the top of their voice all day long. When I was that young it would never be tolerated. The parents don't seem to consider how annoying it is for everyone nearby.

We have laws against this for noisy dogs, we need them for kids as well now it seems.

Some of my neighbours are the same. One of them has the child universally known as "the whingy brat". Awful little child. Can't talk, has to shout. Constantly cries because he doesn't get his own way. Then his stupid bint of a mother panders to him.
 
I was at a house party where there was a new mum and baby present (or at least she was there for the early part of the evening - I don't hang around with crack head mum's who go partying with their new borns till 3am) anyway there was a Swedish girl present who didn't have a child herself but still took it upon herself to give the new mum some parenting advice. Apparently one school of thought in Sweden is to never say "no" to a baby/child and to just let them explore etc... I'm not quote sure about the justification for this... "something something negative reinforcement something something" was all I could gather. But apparently it is a thing in Sweden to not even attempt to correct your kids let alone discipline them. The sad part was that the new mum was lapping all this stuff up, smiling away etc.. "oh that's so interesting..." etc.. I really hope she was just humouring the girl because if that sort of thing carries on we're screwed. ****ing hippies!

Actually there are very good reasons why you shouldn't use 'No' as a method of controlling under 3's. They don't understand it, it's ineffective, and is in direct conflict with their programmed developmental conditioning to explore, being some reasons. Even within our own EYFS it's recognised that other methods to saying No should be used.

The extrapolation you seemed to have taken is that kids will then be left to run riot with no control over them and turn into out of control adults, which is not the case at all, it's about using other techniques such as distraction and positive reinforcement to modify their behaviour, not just saying No, which most parents with terrible twos seem to spend most of their day saying - proving it doesnt work. The same way you can still discipline a child without resorting to corporal punishment.

So it got nothing to do with "****ing hippies" and all to do with evidence based research developing better techniques for early years development and it isn't going to lead to the downfall of society.

Some of my neighbours are the same. One of them has the child universally known as "the whingy brat". Awful little child. Can't talk, has to shout. Constantly cries because he doesn't get his own way. Then his stupid bint of a mother panders to him.

Bad parenting is the root of a lot of problems for sure, it's just how as a society we tackle the issue. A lot of money has gone into the Early years sector, especially extending free childcare to 2 y/o's to try and break the cycle, but even that is too late really, so much foundation gets laid in the first 18 months that it can be a struggle to break habits even at that early age. As always though, there's no easy or quick fix for this.

I see children come into nursery for the first time at 3 who can't even talk, just point and grunt, let alone do something as simple as use a knife or fork which compared to infants who have been in nursery from say 6 months, and are so much more developed in every aspect.
 
Friends were telling me of this ADHD brat in their kid’s class. He was ~10yo, and would literally start smashing up the classroom. Whenever this happened the teachers literally couldn’t make any physical contact with him in case his parents screamed assault, so they had to get every other child out of the class and just stand and watch until his parents or the police arrived to deal with him. He’d already be binned by several other schools, but IIRC each school had to ‘try’ for a certain amount of time before they could palm him off on the next.

I can’t help thinking that if he got a tazer to the neck every time he kicked-off he would have learned pretty quickly.
 
Friends were telling me of this ADHD brat in their kid’s class. He was ~10yo, and would literally start smashing up the classroom. Whenever this happened the teachers literally couldn’t make any physical contact with him in case his parents screamed assault, so they had to get every other child out of the class and just stand and watch until his parents or the police arrived to deal with him. He’d already be binned by several other schools, but IIRC each school had to ‘try’ for a certain amount of time before they could palm him off on the next.

I can’t help thinking that if he got a tazer to the neck every time he kicked-off he would have learned pretty quickly.

Well those teachers aren't following official government guidelines then:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/use-of-reasonable-force-in-schools

What is reasonable force?
1. The term ‘reasonable force’ covers the broad range of actions used by most teachers at some point in their career that involve a degree of physical contact with pupils.
2. Force is usually used either to control or restrain. This can range from guiding a pupil to safety by the arm through to more extreme circumstances such as breaking up a fight or where a student needs to be restrained to prevent violence or injury.
3. ‘Reasonable in the circumstances’ means using no more force than is needed.
4. As mentioned above, schools generally use force to control pupils and to restrain them. Control means either passive physical contact, such as standing between pupils or blocking a pupil's path, or active physical contact such as leading a pupil by the arm out of a classroom.
5. Restraint means to hold back physically or to bring a pupil under control. It is typically used in more extreme circumstances, for example when two pupils are fighting and refuse to separate without physical intervention.
6. School staff should always try to avoid acting in a way that might cause injury, but in extreme cases it may not always be possible to avoid injuring the pupil.

Who can use reasonable force?

• All members of school staff have a legal power to use reasonable force.
• This power applies to any member of staff at the school. It can also apply to people whom the headteacher has temporarily put in charge of pupils such as unpaid volunteers or parents accompanying students on a school organised visit.

When can reasonable force be used?
• Reasonable force can be used to prevent pupils from hurting themselves or others, from damaging property, or from causing disorder.
• In a school, force is used for two main purposes – to control pupils or to restrain them.
• The decision on whether or not to physically intervene is down to the professional judgement of the staff member concerned and should always depend on the individual circumstances.
 
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