Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

Blackjack Davy · 28 Nov 2018 at 15:35

ubersonic said:
Not possible, the protests/riots were a snap reaction to the surprise announcement that the president was blocking the EU deal. There simply wouldn't have been time for the "covert western powers" to get out of bed never-mind get involved and try to stir up rebellion.

The president was democratically elected though so the protests were little more than rabble rousing not wonder those in the east felt betrayed especially when the West kicked up a stink supporting the uprising.

ubersonic · 28 Nov 2018 at 16:36

Blackjack Davy said:
The president was democratically elected though so the protests were little more than rabble rousing

That "rabble" was big enough to overthrow the president.

Nasher · 28 Nov 2018 at 16:50

Rroff said:
Most of the nuclear winter scenarios envisage all out use of the big old megaton bombs (which aid in stratospheric injection) all perfectly causing runaway burn off in built up urban areas - the reality is these days the use of more efficient kiloton warheads in ways which result in less potential for that level of burn off and while not completely relevant to nuclear winter reduced fallout and a significant number would be used against military targets in more remote areas rather than 100% usage against urban centres.

It would still be pretty grim and a lot of people wouldn't survive but not quite the extinction level event usually banded around - average global temperature drop would be more in the range of 3-10C.

EDIT: It is one of the reasons why there was a lot of shift towards more efficient kt warheads when as above with the big old bombs even a successful first strike against another superpower had a good chance of also ensuring your own demise.

And unlucky for Russia, global winds would blow most of the fallout their way

clv101 · 2 Dec 2018 at 19:48

StriderX said:
The nukes would have to hit primarily high-carbon deposits to do anything close to a nuclear winter, because of their low-yield tactical nature, a lot of cities are also incredibly dense in metals, glasses and concrete now that hitting would just be a population strike.

Don't think that's right. Cities burn very well!
See this: https://www.icrc.org/en/doc/assets/files/2013/4132-2-nuclear-weapons-global-food-production-2013.pdf

Rroff · 12 Dec 2018 at 22:31

Not liking the synoptics - though I couldn't guess where things are really going. Russia is moving a lot of intelligence and engineering resources into strategic positions - at levels they wouldn't bother with unless they either thought an offensive or other provocation was imminent or very likely or were planning something themselves.

Orionaut · 12 Dec 2018 at 22:56

IronWarrior said:
It's important to remember that Nuclear Winter is currently, just a theory.

Nuclear winter is a sort of myth.

Yes, if you really wanted to create one. Then you could certainly use multiple large yield devices to do the job.

But it is also perfectly possible to detonate multiple high yield thermonuclear bombs with very little risk of generating a Nuclear winter, or even significant amounts of fallout.

It just depends on what sort of Biblical apocalyptic destruction scenario one is trying to achieve.

Minusorange · 21 Dec 2018 at 14:52

http://w1.c1.rada.gov.ua/pls/zweb2/webproc4_1?pf3511=65272

Draft Resolution on the appeal of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine to the President of Ukraine regarding the declaration of war, the breakdown of diplomatic relations and the cessation of transport links with the Russian Federation

So it seems Ukraine are drafting a declaration of war on Russia ? :confused:

IronWarrior · 21 Dec 2018 at 21:53

Minusorange said:
http://w1.c1.rada.gov.ua/pls/zweb2/webproc4_1?pf3511=65272
So it seems Ukraine are drafting a declaration of war on Russia ?

Likely some minister publishing this bill just for "show" which won't get any support or any traction in their government.

Ukraine is in no position for a war with Russia, it would honestly be like the best Christmas gift they could ever give to them if they was serious about this.

That said... things could be getting heated soon, since Ukraine is being very naughty and trying to make Crimea dry of water by blocking a strategic water canal that feeds them.

4K8KW10 · 21 Dec 2018 at 22:10

Yeah, if the Ukrainian government wants 100% of the territory to be part of the Russian Federation, they are good to go.
At least, then they won't blame anyone for an "annexation".

If they are lucky, they might lose only about 50% of the territory, to be formed as New Russia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novorossiya

Minusorange · 21 Dec 2018 at 22:10

IronWarrior said:
That said... things could be getting heated soon, since Ukraine is being very naughty and trying to make Crimea dry of water by blocking a strategic water canal that feeds them.

There's also trouble stirring between Kosovo and Serbia again with Kosovo approving a formation of an army which Serbia don't like

Rroff · 21 Dec 2018 at 22:14

IronWarrior said:
Ukraine is in no position for a war with Russia, it would honestly be like the best Christmas gift they could ever give to them if they was serious about this.

Would be a weird war - no way in **** Ukraine can win but at the same time Russia can't really afford to get bogged down in Ukraine either - Ukraine has strengthened again that it would be a hugely long slog with Russia having to commit massive amounts of meatgrinder ground troops even with the inevitable air superiority they'd enjoy (unless someone shipped Ukraine a lot of AA systems and modern jets in numbers in a hurry).

4K8KW10 · 21 Dec 2018 at 22:18

Rroff said:
Would be a weird war - no way in **** Ukraine can win but at the same time Russia can't really afford to get bogged down in Ukraine either - Ukraine has strengthened again that it would be a hugely long slog with Russia having to commit massive amounts of meatgrinder ground troops even with the inevitable air superiority they'd enjoy (unless someone shipped Ukraine a lot of AA systems and modern jets in numbers in a hurry).

The Russians can play it passively - just stay at the border and shoot everyone who jumps on them.

Minusorange · 22 Dec 2018 at 13:41

It's okay now guys, UK has sent a single warship to Ukraine to send a message to Russia

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46657470

I bet Vlad is ******** himself now

The Funktopus · 22 Dec 2018 at 13:45

And it’s a survey ship at that. A blood curdling sight for Russia’s Black Sea fleet I’m sure...

4K8KW10 · 22 Dec 2018 at 14:17

Minusorange said:
It's okay now guys, UK has sent a single warship to Ukraine to send a message to Russia

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46657470

I bet Vlad is ******** himself now

The Funktopus said:
And it’s a survey ship at that. A blood curdling sight for Russia’s Black Sea fleet I’m sure...

I don't think the UK alone has enough military potential to fight with Russia. But if they bring the US, Russia probably will bring BRICS members and things will become hot.

Hades · 22 Dec 2018 at 15:09

A single ship is probably the right response. It is a gesture that shows Ukraine has friends. It doesn't just represent Britain but the western powers. Sending more than one ship would be a significant escalation and would prompt a further escalation from Russia.

Roar87 · 22 Dec 2018 at 15:31

Well our Typhoons may as well just remain airborne now for the inevitable practice runs of launching nuclear tipped cruise missiles at the UK

Orionaut · 22 Dec 2018 at 15:32

Minusorange said:
It's okay now guys, UK has sent a single warship to Ukraine to send a message to Russia

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46657470

I bet Vlad is ******** himself now

There was once a time when a single ship would have been all that was necessary!

Oh for the good old days!

Minusorange · 22 Dec 2018 at 15:37

Orionaut said:
There was once a time when a single ship would have been all that was necessary!

Oh for the good old days!

I wonder if we have some subs nearby, is the bosphorus straight deep enough for subs to stealthily pass through to get from the Med into the Black Sea ?

Housey · 22 Dec 2018 at 15:43

Minusorange said:
I wonder if we have some subs nearby, is the bosphorus straight deep enough for subs to stealthily pass through to get from the Med into the Black Sea ?

Nope