ULEZ - Ultra low emission zones for central and inner London

[lemonade]

A simple filtered search on autotrader suggests there are over 233,000 petrol engine cars that meet the Euro 4 standard or above, so there is plenty of choice out there covering the very cheap to the very expensive.

What you are describing is a scenario where to meet the criteria this individual:

Does not already have a vehicle that meets the ULEZ requirements.

Is regularly making journeys which require more than 5 seats.

Is so financially restricted that they can’t afford to change their vehicle even though there are currently cars for sale for £1500 which meet the ULEZ standard (one would assume that they already have a car which they could sell to make some of the money back) yet some how have enough money to tax, insure, fuel and maintain a car and not take the option of public transport instead.

Would retrict their options on what car they buy because they are ‘fussy’ on the type of car they drive even though personally I’ve never met a fussy car buyer at the banger end of the market.

Be living in or regularly entering the ULEZ zone (if it was the occasional journey into the zone it would be cheaper just to keep your non compliant car and pay the fee).

Have no access to credit to purchase a car. Even if it was just a slightly more expensive car paid for with a small loan.

Will have done nothing and not made any effort to save even a small amount of money in the run up of the ULEZ being launched.

You are probably describing a scenario where all of 10 people fit the criteria.

Some one has to live a very sheltered life to be so dismissive and obtuse of what a lot of people struggling financially live like. The ULEZ will come into force in A406 boundaries, a lot of the area is full of people who are not well off & just about get by.

People might be able to afford to run a car because the cost of running it is split across a year, whereas chucking out 5k at once, people don't have that kind of cash lying around.

Public transport is not cheap, nor is it suitable mode of transport for everyone.

1.5k will get you a banger Scenic that needs £500 spent on it every month to keep it going, not everyone wants that, they also may have specific needs, such as specific specs they actually need (and not merely want).

People will be maxed out in credit and debt already.

I know people like this and there are plenty of people like that.

It's easy to dismiss others concerns and struggles from a privileged position, like we see with the current powers that be in government.

Wouldn't surprise me if we see a yellow shirt movement here like another poster mentioned previously.

 

[Steampunk]

Some one has to live a very sheltered life to be so dismissive and obtuse of what a lot of people struggling financially live like. The ULEZ will come into force in A406 boundaries, a lot of the area is full of people who are not well off & just about get by.

People might be able to afford to run a car because the cost of running it is split across a year, whereas chucking out 5k at once, people don't have that kind of cash lying around.

The problem is that a lot of those people are the ones that are being most damaged by the high levels of pollution inside the ULEZ. All buses, lorries, taxis, ambulances, fire engines, police and cars will have to comply with the ULEZ, so it's not just private car owners that are being targeted.

London has just had a young girl officially die due to excess pollution, let alone those that have been significantly impacted by poor health due to pollution, or where pollution has contributed to death. London has also breached clean air guidelines over and over. There's not much choice left in the matter. The health of those living in inner London will be better, and that's a good thing in the long run. It's either that or ban ICE's from the area all together.

 

[Joe T]

^^^ This

 

[johnny6]

Some one has to live a very sheltered life to be so dismissive and obtuse of what a lot of people struggling financially live like. The ULEZ will come into force in A406 boundaries, a lot of the area is full of people who are not well off & just about get by.

People might be able to afford to run a car because the cost of running it is split across a year, whereas chucking out 5k at once, people don't have that kind of cash lying around.

Public transport is not cheap, nor is it suitable mode of transport for everyone.

1.5k will get you a banger Scenic that needs £500 spent on it every month to keep it going, not everyone wants that, they also may have specific needs, such as specific specs they actually need (and not merely want).

People will be maxed out in credit and debt already.

I know people like this and there are plenty of people like that.

It's easy to dismiss others concerns and struggles from a privileged position, like we see with the current powers that be in government.

Wouldn't surprise me if we see a yellow shirt movement here like another poster mentioned previously.

Who mentioned 5 grand? 5 grand gets you a lot of car and I should know as I drive around in an old banger which easily meets the £1500 requirement, to be honest it’s probably worth under a thousand with its 180k miles on the clock.

We aren’t talking about cars from the 80s and 90s here. Normal (as in run of the mill) Modern cars within the last 10-15 years are much more reliable and unless you are extremely unlucky don’t need 500 quid a month spent on them. You know how much my £1000.00 jalopy has cost me in maintenance in almost 2 years of ownership? Less than 650 quid and that includes a couple of bulbs, an mot, a service and a couple of tyres which are all basic wear and tear items. Do you know how much day to day care I take of my car. Zero absolutely nothing. I never check the oil, never warm it up before hooning it. Have been known to use walls/posts to know when it’s parked far enough into a space. Plus I have almost zero mechanical knowledge to my name, yet it keeps on going without costing me £500 a month in repairs.

These people you talk about who just get by (which by the way I’m not disputing exist) a high number of them will already own cars which meet the ULEZ requirement (or not own a car at all because they are just getting by so the ULEZ doesn’t affect them other than potentially providing them with cleaner air to breathe). Unless they have been suckered into buying a diesel even though they only do 6 miles a year lie. We are taking about a requirement which has been in force (for petrol car) for 12-13 years. Run of the mill cars that are 12-13 years old are already worth virtually nothing and are therefore cheap to buy because they are run of the mill cars that are 12-13 years old.

In a world of very cheap 12 year old cars. If someone is looking to buy a newer more expensive car they are not by your definition ‘just getting by’

 

[Cristian]

London has just had a young girl officially die due to excess pollution, let alone those that have been significantly impacted by poor health due to pollution, or where pollution has contributed to death. London has also breached clean air guidelines over and over. There's not much choice left in the matter. The health of those living in inner London will be better, and that's a good thing in the long run. It's either that or ban ICE's from the area all together.

The issue is evident, the ULEZ however is a very poor attempt at fixing it.
As someone that lives, works and occasionally drives in Central London, I can tell you that if you have a proper look in during the day, you will see buses, vans, taxis and private hire vehicles (priuses, C Max, the odd E class, etc). There's actually around one in ten private cars that this ULEZ is trying to fix.

You're better off targeting the 90% with anti pollution measures. This happens partially - new taxis are supposed to be electric, most buses are now hybrids, and so on. I think not enough effort is being done for private hire vehicles though.


In the past decade, the congestion charge and other initiative has reduced the overall number of vechicles by 25%. Great success, right? But the average speeds in zone one have actually... halved in the past 10 years. Slower driving, more time idling, more time spent in traffic results in... more pollution.

There are lots of reasons to this - the road network is medieval at best, but the main ones are... the glorious cycle lanes, lots and lots of speedbumps, lots of 20mph zones (because 20 is plenty, right?) with cameras everywhere to enforce it. Don't get me wrong, 20mph is perfectly justifiable around schools and specific pedestrianed areas. But there is an increasing number of boroughs adopting the 20mph limit and thus causing to the overall decline in average speeds.
How about we re-think this whole "infrastructure transformation" and re-evaluate where and how we put those cycle lanes, speedbumps and 20mph zones? Is nobody looking at the overall end to end impact and the associated knock on effet which is essentially... significantly more pollution?

 

[b0rn2sk8]

You're better off targeting the 90% with anti pollution measures. This happens partially - new taxis are supposed to be electric, most buses are now hybrids, and so on. I think not enough effort is being done for private hire vehicles though.

The new ULEZ also applies to PHV's as does the congestion charge shortly....

The main problem stopping PHV's going all electric is basically Tesla only make vehicles suitable and they are £££. As far as ICE vehicles go you can't really get much better than a Prius for a PHV in central London.

 

[Freakbro]

So this has come in today, but it does seem odd to have an Ultra Low Emissions Zone that isn't based on emissions...just the arbitrary age of the vehicle.

Just checked and my 350z is exempt since it's an 05 reg.

 

[lemonade]

So this has come in today, but it does seem odd to have an Ultra Low Emissions Zone that isn't based on emissions...just the arbitrary age of the vehicle.

Just checked and my 350z is exempt since it's an 05 reg.

This was the point I was making.

I can't drive my 20 year old car every now and again which I know for a fact produces less Nox than a brand new Range Rover V8, who can drive his car around everyday.

Who is creating more pollution? An older car with less Nox driven 2000 miles a year or a new Range Rover with higher Nox drive 10000 miles a year?

I bet your 3.5 V6 is more polluting than my humble 4 pot 2.0.

The rule makes no logical sense, which is often the case with many things particularly road and vehicle rules.

I would be more happy if they just banned cars altogether if they are so concerned with pollution, at least that way I could cycle around everywhere with less anxiety of getting knocked off by a vehicle.

 

[jpaul]

so, even an lpg convert does not exempt your <Euro4 petrol - could have been economic.
https://www.classiccarsforsale.co.u...n-for-lpg-vehicles-in-ultra-low-emission-zone

there must be an immediate shock on the used <euro4 car market, in the vicinity, too.

 

[robfosters]

Had a mate moaning about this on Facebook. How his 2015 van is now gonna cost him over five grand a year to use in London.

I said why don’t he trade it in for a cat 6 van? His furious reply was that he only bought it a month ago and now weasel Khan is charging him more to use it.

He doesn’t seem to grasp the foolishness of buying a cat 5 van one month before ULEZ came in, when it’s been advertised for well over a year.

 

[jpaul]

good point .. used prices had already dropped.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Doesn't this currently only effect the congestion zone which is tiny and only used by very few people that are not a taxi, bus or do deliveries actually drive in.

Your friend also needs to check their maths, it's £12.50 a day so the maximum it can be is £4562.50 if you go into the centre 365 days a year. If they are spending 365 days a year in the T-charge zone why not an electric van?

Their is also a scrap scheme targeted at vans which seems generous, especially if you buy an electric van.
https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone/scrappage-scheme

Edit: have to have owned the van for more than 12 months so your friend isn't eligible.

 

[robfosters]

Doesn't this currently only effect the congestion zone which is tiny and only used by very few people that are not a taxi, bus or do deliveries actually drive in.

Your friend also needs to check their maths, it's £12.50 a day so the maximum it can be is £4562.50 if you go into the centre 365 days a year. If they are spending 365 days a year in the T-charge zone why not an electric van?

Their is also a scrap scheme targeted at vans which seems generous, especially if you buy an electric van.
https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone/scrappage-scheme

Edit: have to have owned the van for more than 12 months so your friend isn't eligible.

Yeah, I can’t really see what he’s moaning about tbh. 2 years time is the biggie. The whole of London then!

 

[Burnsy2023]

He doesn’t seem to grasp the foolishness of buying a cat 5 van one month before ULEZ came in, when it’s been advertised for well over a year.

He wanted a van, saw them going cheap, didn't do any more research and then found out that it's because of the ULEZ. Some people can't be helped.

 

[gort]

So did a quick check on my car as it may be an issue come 2021.
Chucked in my reg and that of a same spec car 54 plate.
MK1 Focus 1.6 2000 = Pay the charge.
Mk1 Focus 1.6 54 plate = No charge.

Being 3-4 years newer doesn't mean lower emissions for same engine and spec.
In this situation is it purely due to the latter registered after a certain date?
Bit of an arse if that's the case.

 

[jpaul]

In this situation is it purely due to the latter registered after a certain date?

euro 4 was only certified >= 2004 for your car, even if the engine was not modified

..but yes can't see how anyone would stomach 12.50 a day

 

[Mr_Sukebe]

Perhaps amusingly, our 2006 BMW 330i is exempt from ULEZ, whilst our 2002 MX5 1.8 will be chargeable.
Guess that means no more midnight visits to central London with the top down.

It does strike me that this is potentially an opportunity to pick of ULEZ offloaded bargain car, if you live pretty much anywhere but London.

 

[Steampunk]

It does strike me that this is potentially an opportunity to pick of ULEZ offloaded bargain car, if you live pretty much anywhere but London.

Don't be surprised when other cities start adopting this. You're fine if you live out of town, but anyone in a significant city is going to be taking a risk of being caught in a new ULEZ if they go for an older diesel. City councils will see it as an easy way of getting their pollution down and making money at a time when they are cash-strapped. Once it's working in London, that will become the model for anywhere else in the UK that wants to do the same.

 

[Jez]

Don't be surprised when other cities start adopting this. You're fine if you live out of town, but anyone in a significant city is going to be taking a risk of being caught in a new ULEZ if they go for an older diesel. City councils will see it as an easy way of getting their pollution down and making money at a time when they are cash-strapped. Once it's working in London, that will become the model for anywhere else in the UK that wants to do the same.

Indeed, i live on the periphery of Oxford, a famously anti-car city. I drive an EU5 diesel primarily

 

[Burnsy2023]

Don't be surprised when other cities start adopting this. You're fine if you live out of town, but anyone in a significant city is going to be taking a risk of being caught in a new ULEZ if they go for an older diesel. City councils will see it as an easy way of getting their pollution down and making money at a time when they are cash-strapped. Once it's working in London, that will become the model for anywhere else in the UK that wants to do the same.

Southampton considered it but recently rejected it. It'll come around again.