New Toyota Supra formally announced

grudas

grudas

grudas

Soldato
Joined
12 Mar 2008
Posts
22,921
Location
West sussex
I think a lot of people here are fixated on numbers only, numbers mean nothing when it comes to the way the car makes you feel, how it drives etc.

300bhp + is a lot for any road car, I can see what toyota did there.

rob dahm did drive it and actually loved it. Typical doug etc guys just bash it because its in fashion and has bmw bits on it, why not. BMW makes the best i6 engines these days. Without them supra would not be a thing I bet.
 

Raymond Lin

Raymond Lin

Raymond Lin

Caporegime
Joined
20 Oct 2002
Posts
74,213
Location
Wish i was in a Ramen Shop Counter
grudas said:
I think a lot of people here are fixated on numbers only, numbers mean nothing when it comes to the way the car makes you feel, how it drives etc.

300bhp + is a lot for any road car, I can see what toyota did there.

rob dahm did drive it and actually loved it. Typical doug etc guys just bash it because its in fashion and has bmw bits on it, why not. BMW makes the best i6 engines these days. Without them supra would not be a thing I bet.
Click to expand...

Doug didn't bash it, he likes the car, he says its a fine car, but he questions some of the decisions.
 

kaku

kaku

kaku

Associate
Joined
21 May 2013
Posts
1,975
"Balance" is just execu-speak. Nobody wants to openly admit it, but the cold hard truth is that there's no profit in making the best product you can. They're cutting to fit the car into the market segment where they think it'll do best.
I have no doubt it's going to be a decent car - the powertrain has proven tuning potential and it will be fast. I think many are just stuck with the rose-tinted glasses of yesteryear, myself included. I don't remember looking twice at the mk4 Supra when it was in general production; it was purely the tuning scene that gave it the legacy it has.
 

Nasher

Nasher

Nasher

Soldato
Joined
22 Nov 2006
Posts
23,390
Raymond Lin said:
I personally don’t see a problem with a BMW partnership or engine, BMW is a good car maker, one with history, one with prestige.
Click to expand...

Toyota pretty much made the engine anyway.

The story goes BMW thought it was good enough, but when Toyota's engineers came in they didn't think so. So re-designed most of it and put it through much more extensive testing. Which is why it's vastly better than BMW's previous 6cyl :p
 
Last edited:

Lashout_UK

Lashout_UK

Lashout_UK

Soldato
Joined
2 Mar 2004
Posts
11,910
Location
SE England
Nasher said:
Toyota pretty much made the engine anyway.

The story goes BMW thought it was good enough, but when Toyota's engineers came in they didn't think so. So re-designed most of it and put it through much more extensive testing. Which is why it's vastly better than BMW's previous 6cyl :p
Click to expand...

Apologies if I missed the thread of this, but are you talking about the new I6? If so, I don't think that's the case. Most of the parts used in the Supra-specific B58B30C (supplied by BMW) are, unsurprisingly, straight from BMW's catalogue and interchangeable from other models.

An associate of mine wrote a very comprehensive story on it that broke it down but, in short, it's effectively the same as the engine in the new X5 barring a few parts:

Cylinder head: straight from the X5, complete (inc. exhaust cam, intake cam shared with other BMWs, inc. 340i)
Intake and charge-air cooler: straight from the X5
Crankshaft: X5/Z4
Con rods: X5 (standard BMW fare, though)
Oil pan: Stock BMW 3.0 from 2015 on
Water pump/thermal management module: X5
Fuel rail: X5
Injectors: Standard BMW
Throttle body: X5
ECU: X5/Z4
Starter: X5
Alternator: X5
Turbocharger: Euro-spec Z4

Some of those may have since transpired to be also shared with the Z4 but its engine does have some different parts and is also more powerful; the Z4 has a different cylinder head, different pistons and different rods (and mapping to suit, no doubt).

It's a similar story throughout. Wheel hubs and bearings? 5 Series. Steering column? X3. AC system? X3. Etc.

Bespoke key parts? They're not huge in number for the Supra but include the oil pump, steering rack and engine mounts.

https://jalopnik.com/the-2019-toyota-supra-is-a-bmw-parts-bin-car-1829563030

Also, it's reported that Toyota (according to the head of Gazoo Racing) only developed the suspension elements, transmission and differential aspects of the new Supra. I'm sure there might have been some input on the powertrain front but BMW will have been working on it for a long time.
 

InvaderGIR

InvaderGIR

InvaderGIR

Soldato
Joined
14 Jul 2005
Posts
17,615
Location
Bristol
If you haven't seen it already, Speed Academy did a video of it on track and their thoughts.



Personally I'd ignore CH as most tweets I see by him are just him ragging on stuff and it's tiresome.
 

Chris1712

Chris1712

Chris1712

Soldato
Joined
29 Jul 2004
Posts
9,674
Location
Somerset
mrk said:
The Supra is stiffer than the LFA according to the journalists presentation by Toyota.

That's quite impressive tbh. But all those blank aero holes left for "tuners" to deal with is a bit of a cop out.
Click to expand...

It's going to be a properly rapid sports car at the end of the day, maybe it won't have the same legacy of the old models but it's still a whole lot of 2 seater coupe in a market which doesn't have many options (sadly). I can see them holding their value MUCH better than the Z4 which shouldn't really happen, and in a few years they will be great buys. As much stick as they get for combining with BMW, at least the interior will be nice (seriously have you sat in a GT86?) and the tuning scene is still decent. The B58 is a great motor, you're going to get 450bhp+ with a decat and remap which is bonkers really.
 

BananaDunka

BananaDunka

BananaDunka

Man of Honour
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
100,345
Location
South Coast
450+ on the Z4 version yeah, note that the Supra version is heavily detuned and Toyota's reasoning being that the tuners can ramp it back up. So you'd be spending more to tune it to a tuned Z4 standard unless it is just ECU detuning that Toyota have done and not left some components out. Doug does mention in his video that certain things under the body have been left out though and corners cut just because tuners can do the rest.

I can't see the tuning scene being so great for this new model, at least not anytime soon anyway. And nowhere near the level of community the 2jz had.

As a whole it looks like a great sports car, but look at details and you wonder wtf a bit, especially at the price point it is, over £50k!

50k for something you'd have to spend a whole chunk more on to tune up to what it should be just because Toyota seem to be surfing the 90s Supra popularity wagon.
 

[TW]Fox

[TW]Fox

[TW]Fox

Man of Honour
Joined
17 Oct 2002
Posts
159,621
mrk said:
450+ on the Z4 version yeah, note that the Supra version is heavily detuned and Toyota's reasoning being that the tuners can ramp it back up.
Click to expand...

What?

The Supra has the same power as standard as the Z4 M40i over here. Its eu emissions that have dictated that and not some sort of wishy washy plan to appeal to the tuners.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom