New Toyota Supra formally announced

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Audi did it as with hybrids etc coming the model displaying just the ICE part could be very misleading so they were moving to a similar performance type rating as BMW

I suppose they could put the BHP on the boot but then many would be suggesting torque instead

I just model delete myself anyway, too many bad memories of eg fords and vauxhalls where they used different type fonts and sizing for different things like the brand and model, and sometimes even the model and trim would be different, just triggered my OCD

 

[Howard]

Audi did it as with hybrids etc coming the model displaying just the ICE part could be very misleading so they were moving to a similar performance type rating as BMW

I suppose they could put the BHP on the boot but then many would be suggesting torque instead

I just model delete myself anyway, too many bad memories of eg fords and vauxhalls where they used different type fonts and sizing for different things like the brand and model, and sometimes even the model and trim would be different, just triggered my OCD

You mean the

GRANADA
2.8i Ghia X

 

[Del Lardo]

I took my GR Yaris in for a service yesterday and there was a Supra parked out front that caught my eye (not hard in a sea of Yaris/Aygo/etc). I'll admit that I'd not paid a huge amount of attention the car before other than watching a few reviews when it came out and it looks like a bit of a bargain as a used car with 70 plate cars for around £42-44k and can't think of much else that competes around that price point for a 2 door coupe, Cayman is the obvious but it will be 5 years older and not backed by remainder of warranty, maybe an F-Type but not going to have Toyota reliability (yes I know there's lots of BMW in there too).

Anyway, it got me thinking what I want to do whilst I wait for an i4 Emira to arrive as I need to sell the Vantage this year to make Emira happen and I could run a relatively sensible 2 seater as my car (SWMBO has Model 3 with Model Y on order).

 

[Gibbo]

I took my GR Yaris in for a service yesterday and there was a Supra parked out front that caught my eye (not hard in a sea of Yaris/Aygo/etc). I'll admit that I'd not paid a huge amount of attention the car before other than watching a few reviews when it came out and it looks like a bit of a bargain as a used car with 70 plate cars for around £42-44k and can't think of much else that competes around that price point for a 2 door coupe, Cayman is the obvious but it will be 5 years older and not backed by remainder of warranty, maybe an F-Type but not going to have Toyota reliability (yes I know there's lots of BMW in there too).

Anyway, it got me thinking what I want to do whilst I wait for an i4 Emira to arrive as I need to sell the Vantage this year to make Emira happen and I could run a relatively sensible 2 seater as my car (SWMBO has Model 3 with Model Y on order).

Drive the Supra before buying, I found forward out visibility pretty poor.

F-Type has to be V8, the other engine options just feel slow. Buy from Jaguar for warranty purposes mine had no issues.
Cayman R - This is what I would buy, the most fun you can pretty much get in a road car, 40k will get you in one, 40k will get you out of one, extremely reliable cars and as such no need for warranties really, or buy a Porsche from an OPC and it will have 2yr warranty which is very good.

V8 Vantage prices are really moving up so your in a good place, especially if its a manual.

 

[Lowe]

Supra MKV prices are a little odd, really all over the shop with mileage, age etc having no relevance to the price people ask.

It's a solid performer stock but the suspension alignment from factory is typically awful and benefits immensely from a good set up.

As Gibbo says, cabin visibility can be a little 'pillbox' but you do get used to it.

Lots of tuning options if that's your bag too...

 

[Del Lardo]

Interesting feedback, thanks @Gibbo & @Lowe.

Pricing is a bit of a concern with WBAC offering £33k on a car advertised for £43k and many of the cars on Autotrader seeming to have been there since November doesn't make me confident I could sell it quickly without a big loss if needed.

Vantage is an early 4.7 manual and pricing does look good compared to what I paid for it (if I ignore the running costs). I think I've slightly shot myself in the foot changing my 5GT to a GR Yaris as before the Vantage was a fun car to use when I could, but now Yaris can take most of that role too. I don't have much free time and at £4k/year before it turns a wheel (I won't run it without a warranty as I've had it since I bought it and sods law something very expensive goes bang the moment I don't renew it) it's increasingly hard to justify keeping it.

I really just need the i4 Emira to appear tomorrow to save me having to think, but even then at (estimated) £70-72k for FE is looking a little hard to justify against a £55k new (£45k used) Supra that will likely offer very similar performance and specs, if not (hopefully for Lotus) the ultimate edge when it comes to handling and ride, looks and interior.

 

[Gibbo]

Interesting feedback, thanks @Gibbo & @Lowe.

Pricing is a bit of a concern with WBAC offering £33k on a car advertised for £43k and many of the cars on Autotrader seeming to have been there since November doesn't make me confident I could sell it quickly without a big loss if needed.

Vantage is an early 4.7 manual and pricing does look good compared to what I paid for it (if I ignore the running costs). I think I've slightly shot myself in the foot changing my 5GT to a GR Yaris as before the Vantage was a fun car to use when I could, but now Yaris can take most of that role too. I don't have much free time and at £4k/year before it turns a wheel (I won't run it without a warranty as I've had it since I bought it and sods law something very expensive goes bang the moment I don't renew it) it's increasingly hard to justify keeping it.

I really just need the i4 Emira to appear tomorrow to save me having to think, but even then at (estimated) £70-72k for FE is looking a little hard to justify against a £55k new (£45k used) Supra that will likely offer very similar performance and specs, if not (hopefully for Lotus) the ultimate edge when it comes to handling and ride, looks and interior.

In all honesty comparing an Emira to a Supra is all levels of wrong just like comparing a Cayman to a Supra is.

Supra is a front engine electric steering heavy bloated car with poor visibility.

The Emira and Cayman are lighter, mid engine and have fantastic manual gear boxes, the Emira even has proper hydraulic steering.

Supra is a hammer whereas an Emira is more a scalpel and from a driving pleasure point of view which for me is a car that is full of feel and engagement the Supra would never be considered.

Advantage of Supra is the very tune friendly so big power is easy but so is a GTR.

 

[Del Lardo]

In all honesty comparing an Emira to a Supra is all levels of wrong just like comparing a Cayman to a Supra is.

Supra is a front engine electric steering heavy bloated car with poor visibility.

The Emira and Cayman are lighter, mid engine and have fantastic manual gear boxes, the Emira even has proper hydraulic steering.

Supra is a hammer whereas an Emira is more a scalpel and from a driving pleasure point of view which for me is a car that is full of feel and engagement the Supra would never be considered.

Advantage of Supra is the very tune friendly so big power is easy but so is a GTR.

Couldn’t disagree with your first statement more. I can compare a Supra to pretty much any sports car in its vague price range if my selection criteria is 2 seater sports car that has a half decent boot that will get my to Heathrow at 3am in the winter, allow me to take mini-me to nursery occasionally and be a laugh to drive when I have the chance.

It’s not a what’s the best mid engined rear wheel drive car I can get thought. It’s a, ooh the Supra seems to offer a hell of a lot of 1-2 year old sports car for the money.

oh, and no manual option in the i4 Emira


And if you think that’s messed up I spent several weeks comparing a 5GT to a Yaris

 

[Gibbo]

Couldn’t disagree with your first statement more. I can compare a Supra to pretty much any sports car in its vague price range if my selection criteria is 2 seater sports car that has a half decent boot that will get my to Heathrow at 3am in the winter, allow me to take mini-me to nursery occasionally and be a laugh to drive when I have the chance.

It’s not a what’s the best mid engined rear wheel drive car I can get thought. It’s a, ooh the Supra seems to offer a hell of a lot of 1-2 year old sports car for the money.

oh, and no manual option in the i4 Emira


And if you think that’s messed up I spent several weeks comparing a 5GT to a Yaris

Haha it’s really down to what you want in a car, the Supra is good but I just finder lighter more feelsome cars a lot more fun to drive for me personally.

The Supra will be nice to drive anytime if year for sure been a modern well insulated car and all that.

as your spending 40k have you not maybe considered a Cayman R? Available in both manual and PDK, seriously good fun road car, two boots, very reliable, good fuel economy and very capable on track too and you will probably lose very little money if buying now. Or maybe even a 981 GTS Cayman or Boxster. Not sure if you’ve owned or driven before but they are well worth visiting!

987.2 have ultimate in steering feel and are lightweight cars.
981 best sounding and great looking whilst also been great.

For me in a road car for fun I found the 987.2 cars trump the 981 cars because the gearing is shorter, better steering feel and a physically smaller car, but 981 is better looking and nicer place to be.

Just go drive them all you will quickly find what works for you.

 

[NathWraith]

As the resident (ex) mk5 owner I can tell you pretty much anything you wish to know about the car.

Had mine from brand new and tuned up past 600bhp.

Overall a solid car.

Handling always feels alittle wooden, capable but not the best feedback even with alignment and suspension mods.

The steering really is a weak point, not much feel and a huge dead zone in the centre. Coupled with the limited view can make placing the car difficult. By no means bad, it’s better than 99% of non sporty cars out there but not the best in class by a long shot.

Power tails off early in a stock car, like most turbo cars these days.

Gearbox is more than competent as long as you don’t put too much power through it.

Brakes are great.

Compared to the competition the supra is more of a jack of all trades, master of none really. That sounds like a harsh comment but here me out.

Caymans/Alpines/Lotus etc will be more of a drivers car but lack power/refinement and generally more expensive.

AMG/Audi RS/BMW M equivalent will be more “normal” and not have the X factor of the Supra as it punches above its weight class.

It will handle far better than any Mustang everyday of the week. Far better built too.

Premium hot hatches (AMG/Audi/BMW/TT) will be as quick if not faster but less involved/special.

“Drivers” hot hatches (Renault/Honda) will be more focussed but have the limitation of FWD and again less X factor.

MPG is astounding really, I often got over 30 on a run even when tuned.

Practicality is great for a 2 seater and the size make it easy to get into tight spaces, into multi stories etc. The view is abit pill box but not the worst either. Headroom is great too, I’m tall and could wear a helmet too. Important if you track it.

Tech/infotainment is more than good enough. Unless you need the latest version of infotainment possible, then maybe this isn’t for you. Personally I value the physical car/driving experience over that.

I can’t see anything nearly new for circa £45K in this category id rather have!

I loved using my Supra as my everyday car but when it became consigned to occasional duties it just didn’t feel special enough.

So yes a Cayman or Lotus will tick the boxes better for occasional use but if you are using the car everyday, the Supra has them beat.

 

[Del Lardo]

Haha it’s really down to what you want in a car, the Supra is good but I just finder lighter more feelsome cars a lot more fun to drive for me personally.

The Supra will be nice to drive anytime if year for sure been a modern well insulated car and all that.

as your spending 40k have you not maybe considered a Cayman R? Available in both manual and PDK, seriously good fun road car, two boots, very reliable, good fuel economy and very capable on track too and you will probably lose very little money if buying now. Or maybe even a 981 GTS Cayman or Boxster. Not sure if you’ve owned or driven before but they are well worth visiting!

987.2 have ultimate in steering feel and are lightweight cars.
981 best sounding and great looking whilst also been great.

For me in a road car for fun I found the 987.2 cars trump the 981 cars because the gearing is shorter, better steering feel and a physically smaller car, but 981 is better looking and nicer place to be.

Just go drive them all you will quickly find what works for you.

I've driven 987 era Boxster and Cayman and they were great to drive but when I look at them and think about seeing one on my drive everyday nothing in my brain gets excited. I have no doubt that a 987R or 981 would be brilliant and a safe place to put money but whatever it is in my brain that makes me want a car just doesn't care.

 

[Del Lardo]

As the resident (ex) mk5 owner I can tell you pretty much anything you wish to know about the car.

Had mine from brand new and tuned up past 600bhp.

Overall a solid car.

Handling always feels alittle wooden, capable but not the best feedback even with alignment and suspension mods.

The steering really is a weak point, not much feel and a huge dead zone in the centre. Coupled with the limited view can make placing the car difficult. By no means bad, it’s better than 99% of non sporty cars out there but not the best in class by a long shot.

Power tails off early in a stock car, like most turbo cars these days.

Gearbox is more than competent as long as you don’t put too much power through it.

Brakes are great.

Compared to the competition the supra is more of a jack of all trades, master of none really. That sounds like a harsh comment but here me out.

Caymans/Alpines/Lotus etc will be more of a drivers car but lack power/refinement and generally more expensive.

AMG/Audi RS/BMW M equivalent will be more “normal” and not have the X factor of the Supra as it punches above its weight class.

It will handle far better than any Mustang everyday of the week. Far better built too.

Premium hot hatches (AMG/Audi/BMW/TT) will be as quick if not faster but less involved/special.

“Drivers” hot hatches (Renault/Honda) will be more focussed but have the limitation of FWD and again less X factor.

MPG is astounding really, I often got over 30 on a run even when tuned.

Practicality is great for a 2 seater and the size make it easy to get into tight spaces, into multi stories etc. The view is abit pill box but not the worst either. Headroom is great too, I’m tall and could wear a helmet too. Important if you track it.

Tech/infotainment is more than good enough. Unless you need the latest version of infotainment possible, then maybe this isn’t for you. Personally I value the physical car/driving experience over that.

I can’t see anything nearly new for circa £45K in this category id rather have!

I loved using my Supra as my everyday car but when it became consigned to occasional duties it just didn’t feel special enough.

So yes a Cayman or Lotus will tick the boxes better for occasional use but if you are using the car everyday, the Supra has them beat.

A lot to unpack there, thanks for the comments.....

Infotainment looks to be fine, has CarPlay and having had it on Yaris I'd not buy another car (apart from Tesla) without it.

I've watched a few reviews on YouTube this evening and they are all really positive, not without niggles but positive.
Chris Harris, BMW BMW etc etc, is it a great drivers car? Yes.
Matt Watson, big grin. Buy it
Autogefühl loved it
Shmee (not someone I enjoy watching but he's driven enough nice cars to have a clue) rates it
Mr JWW, I think this was one of the most telling reviews where Oakmere mention that they struggle to get people in to the car. For some reason (guess at BMW BMW BMW) it's not captures the public attention, certainly it passed me by and he loved his test drive.


My birthday next Monday and I get a free day off work, think I'll need to take a poke around one, I may end up hating the pillbox view but at least it will give me an answer.

 

[Nasher]

I see one of these locally and that's it, hardly anyone seems to be buying them. Getting BMW to make it was a big mistake I think. People want Japanese cars to be Japanese, because when they make them they are indestructable.

Seeing a lot more GT86s around now though, when I had mine I rarely saw another. Maybe people were holding off for the new Supra and got disapointed, so saved themselves a lot of cash.

 

[NathWraith]

I see one of these locally and that's it, hardly anyone seems to be buying them. Getting BMW to make it was a big mistake I think. People want Japanese cars to be Japanese, because when they make them they are indestructable.

Seeing a lot more GT86s around now though, when I had mine I rarely saw another. Maybe people were holding off for the new Supra and got disapointed, so saved themselves a lot of cash.

It hasn’t got its own identity which is the sad consequence of the BMW partnership. Which is a shame as objectively it’s incredible.

Maybe too expensive in the UK though. Costs more than the equivalent Z4.

Whereas in the US they are considerably cheaper than the Z4 and are very popular.

Also we are brand snobs in the UK.

 

[NathWraith]

I’d check out JayEmm on cars on YouTube. His review is the most honest and I found myself nodding in agreement to a lot of his points.

 

[Nasher]

It hasn’t got its own identity which is the sad consequence of the BMW partnership. Which is a shame as objectively it’s incredible.

Maybe too expensive in the UK though. Costs more than the equivalent Z4.

Whereas in the US they are considerably cheaper than the Z4 and are very popular.

Also we are brand snobs in the UK.

Yea and we have it backwards too. For some reason we put BMW above Toyota/Lexus but in most of the world it's the other way round, because of the build quality and reliability.