6 Year old boy thrown 5 floors from Tate Modern Museum in London by 17 year old boy

Without reading everything in this post you can't blame every parent for every decision there off spring make. When does a person become responsible for there own actions?



M.
 
m4cc45 said:
Without reading everything in this post you can't blame every parent for every decision there off spring make. When does a person become responsible for there own actions?



M.
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I advocated holding the parents responsible along with their child - not instead of. I also suggested that the perp in this case may be a bit old but I imagine he displayed troublesome behaviour in the past and at that point his parents should also be held responsible along with him.
 
ttaskmaster said:
No. I'm holding 100% of parents accountable. They're parents, they parent, they are accountable for their parenting. Who the **** else could you possibly hold accountable?
Serious question - Who would you blame for bad parenting, if not the parents?

Now of that bad parenting, let's assume your 60% is accurate, a significant proportion of children from that 60% will emerge as criminals.
There might well be many different underlying causes that resulted in the bad parenting, some of which you can address for future generations, but that does not change the fact that their parenting was bad and produced some criminals.
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But where's the solid link between parenting and crime? How can we persecute parents when we can't point to specific evidence? And holding parents accountable for their offspring's actions just for having had a failed marriage is a bit bloody extreme!

Hence, it's pretty ******* stupid. you see.
 
Malevolence said:
Although is anyone taking bets on when autism or assburgers will be blamed?
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dowie said:
Quite possibly that will be blamed, in fact the latter doesn't even exist anymore, it is just autism now.
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Sorry to sidetrack, but what does ASD/Asperger's have to do with this? There's so much misconception around the disorder, and linking it to psychos throwing kids off balconies pretty much personifies it. Asperger's is still diagnosable, btw. It's been amalgamated under ASD in DSM V, which Americans tend to use. In the UK and Europe we tend to use the WHO ICD-10, the latest version of which (2016) still classifies Asperger's as an 'Autism-like disorder'.

ICD-10(F84.5) said:
A disorder of uncertain nosological validity, characterized by the same type of qualitative abnormalities of reciprocal social interaction that typify autism, together with a restricted, stereotyped, repetitive repertoire of interests and activities. It differs from autism primarily in the fact that there is no general delay or retardation in language or in cognitive development.
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Rainmaker said:
Sorry to sidetrack, but what does ASD/Asperger's have to do with this? There's so much misconception around the disorder, and linking it to psychos throwing kids off balconies pretty much personifies it.
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Sorry I was wrong re, Aspbergers it seems it is just the US that has removed it as a separate condition, I assumed that was established practice elsewhere too.

Myself and the other poster might be quite cynical here but this kid wasn’t normal, conditions like that are rather broad to the point where plenty of people who think they have it and actually bother to get tested will get a diagnosis. It is cited sometimes in extradition hearings etc... It wouldn’t surprise me at all, if this kid doesn’t already have some other diagnosed conditions, if autism gets mentioned at the later trial.
 
dowie said:
Sorry I was wrong re, Aspbergers it seems it is just the US that has removed it as a separate condition, I assumed that was established practice elsewhere too.

Myself and the other poster might be quite cynical here but this kid wasn’t normal, conditions like that are rather broad to the point where plenty of people who think they have it and actually bother to get tested will get a diagnosis. It is cited sometimes in extradition hearings etc... It wouldn’t surprise me at all, if this kid doesn’t already have some other diagnosed conditions, if autism gets mentioned at the later trial.
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The kid's not normal, agreed. That doesn't mean it's anything to do with ASD, Asperger's, PDD-NOS or anything else of the sort. 'Ah he's nuts he's probably gonna go Autistic' is a stereotypical brush that does no favours to anyone.

As for the rest of your post, sorry Dowie but that's just not true. It's actually difficult to get a diagnosis, and the process is long and complicated. For a child it takes about 3 years on average, with three specialist reports (speech & language, paediatrician and dietician/OT) followed by a final review of those reports under a tribunal of specialists. For an adult, DISCO (Wing et al.) is generally used which is a 2-3 hour interview requiring an informant - typically a parent - with a full medical and social history being taken, a controlled questionnaire and a scoring system for various tasks. A diagnosis then will or won't be given, depending on the results.

It's extremely specific, arduous and not something you can get just because you saw someone with it on Jeremy Kyle once and fancy you might have it. Diagnostic rates are improving because awareness and ability to refer is improving. In fact before the Autism Act 2009 many areas simply didn't have the means to test or diagnose. That doesn't mean diagnoses are handed out like sweets.
 
cheesyboy said:
But where's the solid link between parenting and crime? How can we persecute parents when we can't point to specific evidence? And holding parents accountable for their offspring's actions just for having had a failed marriage is a bit bloody extreme!

Hence, it's pretty ******* stupid. you see.
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Partially agree w/ you. if they've been good parents and tried their best but the kid's just a ****, then it's not on them. alternatively if they're scumbag parents who have done nothing to bring their brats up right, then i'd say they should be accountable, to some degree at least.
 
Rainmaker said:
The kid's not normal, agreed. That doesn't mean it's anything to do with ASD, Asperger's, PDD-NOS or anything else of the sort. 'Ah he's nuts he's probably gonna go Autistic' is a stereotypical brush that does no favours to anyone.

As for the rest of your post, sorry Dowie but that's just not true. It's actually difficult to get a diagnosis, and the process is long and complicated
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I wasn’t commenting on the difficulty of the process but rather that there are probably plenty more people out there who would probably get a diagnosis too. IIRC there was a view from one autism organisation that most people who have self diagnosed after reading about it online probably do have it. This is rather tangential though.

The kid isn’t normal and the other poster is likely just expressing some cynicism, he’s not tarring everyone with that condition with the same brush.
 
wolfie138 said:
Partially agree w/ you. if they've been good parents and tried their best but the kid's just a ****, then it's not on them. alternatively if they're scumbag parents who have done nothing to bring their brats up right, then i'd say they should be accountable, to some degree at least.
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A child's behaviour is often down to the parents ability to parent.

There are many ways of behaviour manipulation... Parents need to learn how to change the behaviour of a child from a young age.
If they don't, due to their ineptitude or sheer laziness... Then their child will have behavioural issues later in life.
In my own opinion.... It's the parents fault.
 
What a horrible crime... does not sound all that hopeful for the poor little kid. Fingers crossed he comes through it.. As for the teenager who did it.

Ill or not I really hope he does not get let free on diminished responsibility or some such. Regardless of the details he is a clear danger to society and as such needs to be put away somewhere, be it prison or a high security hospital imo.
It seems like it was a planned attack and not some spur of the moment thing which some how makes it worse imo.


edit I was just making a coffee looking out of my 3rd floor office window... That lad was thrown 5 floors.

I just cant see any remotely not unhappy ending from this..... I hope miracles can happen (I say that despite not being a religious person).
 
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Freakbro said:
I'll take the category "Sentences you thought you would never see on OCUK" please Jim
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Lol, that’s not the first time I’ve said that on here.

I can be stubborn in defending my opinions though I’m happy to be corrected on facts. Problem is some people are intolerant of differing opinions or quote me to argue against some position I’ve not put forth.
 
Little update on BBC News about the boys condition

A six-year-old boy who fell from the 10th floor of the Tate Modern fractured his spine, a court has heard.

The French national, who was visiting London with his family, was found on a fifth-floor roof after he fell from the gallery's viewing platform on Sunday.

Prosecutors told Bromley Youth Court he also suffered a "deep" bleed to the brain and leg and arm fractures.
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Wonder if Tate Modern are going to take a hit on this?

If they have to implement changes to prevent something like this happening again then surly they are at fault.
 
labcoattech said:
Wonder if Tate Modern are going to take a hit on this?

If they have to implement changes to prevent something like this happening again then surly they are at fault.
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I dont think it is fair to expect a company to have to prepare for someone picking up a child and throwing them out of a building / off a balcony.
IF that was a thing then basically such things as open air balconys would cease to exist, and everything would be in cages - not something i would like to see......
IF a balcony fails then someone is at fault, if a wall is not high enough and someone slips over someone is at fault.... IF a person picks somoene up and throws them over a ledge or out of a window.... that person is at fault.

that may seem fairly simplistic but as a general rule i really dislike this ambulance chasing mentality society has these days, it saddens me to think there probably ARE a few solicitors rubbing their hands at this tragedy looking for an angle to make money.
 
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