Joker (2019)

I’m not sure how the ending is up for debate??

He killed the lady that was his psychiatrist or whatever? It sure how that is in dispute.
 
Saw it last night it was okay, certainly didn't feel like it was a DC adaptation, some parts were good some were pretty generic, just an average film, don't see the fuss apart from Phoenix's performance which was great
 
Nitefly said:
I’m not sure how the ending is up for debate??

He killed the lady that was his psychiatrist or whatever? It sure how that is in dispute.
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I don't think that's what he meant, more about the question posed by that final scene, as in my own spoiler comment.
 
This movie was... surprisingly good. I was expecting the usual DC crap, but wow. Absolutely stunned.
 
Watched it yesterday, decent film and great performance by phenix.

On the ending.

are they trying to say that basically the Joker created batman?
 
I've enjoyed reading all the different theories and interpretations in this thread. Obviously it's too much to expect uniform agreement on a film that's highly subjective, with multiple dream sequences and plot forks.

To me, the ultimate significance of Joker is twofold:

* it's the first movie to rehabilitate the Joker as a sympathetic anti-hero with an official backstory
* it's the first movie to establish Batman as a canonical character within DC's Dark Extended Jokerverse
 
You know what's particularly amazing about this movie? It's a wildly successful comic book supervillain film without a single explosion or gun fight. Michael Bay could learn a thing or two from Joker.

VincentHanna said:
I don't think the film was trying to make him sympathetic, at all.

His story was tragic, but I don't sympathise with him.
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Seriously? I was sympathising all the way.
 
I enjoyed the movie immensely , but did feel it fell a bit short in creating the complex motivations when compared to Taxi Driver or King of Comedy, both of which the Joker does seem to pay homage to.

Will definitely need to watch it again, as on first watch I try not to not think too much about themes and comparisons, but just stay in the moment.
 
Nitefly said:
For me, and many others... sort of? There are ********* in the world that take so much and are basically untouchable. I sort of saw it all as a ‘revenge’ against the system.
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Totally this. The idea is that people were getting what they deserved, to miss that is to miss the point of the movie. Whether or not they truly deserved it when "zoomed out" is a different matter, when you're down the rabbit hole of the movie the way the scenes come together is very much soaked in "satisfying and justified revenge". If I didn't feel that in those moments, the movie wouldn't have been anywhere near as enjoyable.
 
They only 'deserve' it if you're watching the film for Arthur's point of view.
I think it shows everyone is only a day away from going crazy. It's a downward spiral with an inevitable conclusion that if someone is pushed too much some may snap and go werewolf as he says. So you can sympathise why someone would feel that way, but not with how he acted it out
 
VincentHanna said:
Im not sure Robert De Niro deserved to be murdered just for making fun of him with the footage.
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I hate to go all The Sun on you and put the bit that's important in bold but...

Zefan said:
Whether or not they truly deserved it when "zoomed out" is a different matter, when you're down the rabbit hole of the movie the way the scenes come together is very much soaked in "satisfying and justified revenge".
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