US kills Iran's General Soleimani

[silvagti]

America would ideally want a stable country.

For the purpose of getting a cheap and stable supply of oil from countries installing a government which is basically a military dictatorship is actually quite effective.

Trading with a stable country with a democratic elected government isn't necessarily in "our" interests as it would like push up prices....

 

[Trusty]

For the purpose of getting a cheap and stable supply of oil from countries installing a government which is basically a military dictatorship is actually quite effective.

I don't think it's an accident that most of the West's "allies" in the middle East are run by despots who've we've been selling arms on return for dibs on their mineral resources....

It's not just the west though, China & Russia are doing the same thing.

China are building roads and infrastructure in Africa in return for minerals.

No fighting there though..

 

[Panos]

What event are you talking about?

Invasion of Afghanistan & Iraq, the training and funding of the Saudi Islamists in Syria (who made ISIS) and lets not forget Libya.
Also lets name few other countries we are responsible for destabilizing, Ukraine, Venezuela, Egypt (do you remember Morsi?).

Now we even feel brave and fiddling in Hong Kong politics. Good one. Lets start poking further nuclear powers. What would go wrong indeed

The question is, are you ready to be burned alive when bombs fall? And what ever is left of humanity afterwards be sure going to put you in the same category as the average German during WW2, who did nothing.

 

[FoxEye]

@Trusty I don't recall saying America wanted to destabilise them per se, just that their actions haven't helped achieve any stability, and may well have made things worse.

I'm not saying the ME would be a flourishing democracy had the US not intervened; I have said that the US isn't particularly interested in a peaceful ME if it doesn't benefit them. A peaceful ME aligned with Russia, for example, isn't what the US wants.

And I did say that we've actually achieved very little out there despite multi-year occupancy, regime change, etc.

 

[silvagti]

It's not just the west though, China & Russia are doing the same thing.

China are building roads and infrastructure in Africa in return for minerals.

No fighting there though..

Absolutely, I'm not suggesting the US are the good or bad guys as clearly other countries/powers are acting in exactly the same way to further their own agendas.

 

[Panos]

Absolutely, I'm not suggesting the US are the good or bad guys as clearly other countries/powers are acting in exactly the same way to further their own agendas.

Ehm which other country than USA sends drones in another country killing people?
Which other country has openly invaded 3 countries in just 10 years?

 

[FoxEye]

It's not just the west though, China & Russia are doing the same thing.

China are building roads and infrastructure in Africa in return for minerals.

No fighting there though..

Funnily enough they tend to be more thankful for roads and infrastructure than bombs and laying waste to everything.

Odd isn't it.

Not to mention starting civil wars by funding insurgents. Who then turn into the next bad guys the US wants to remove.

 

[Trusty]

Funnily enough they tend to be more thankful for roads and infrastructure than bombs and laying waste to everything.

Odd isn't it.

And thats exactly my point, thats what America would do if they could, but they obviously can't because of the sectarianism and power vacuums between the different Muslim sects.

 

[Trusty]

Invasion of Afghanistan & Iraq, the training and funding of the Saudi Islamists in Syria (who made ISIS) and lets not forget Libya.
Also lets name few other countries we are responsible for destabilizing, Ukraine, Venezuela, Egypt (do you remember Morsi?).

Now we even feel brave and fiddling in Hong Kong politics. Good one. Lets start poking further nuclear powers. What would go wrong indeed

The question is, are you ready to be burned alive when bombs fall? And what ever is left of humanity afterwards be sure going to put you in the same category as the average German during WW2, who did nothing.

Am i ready to be burned alive? Well obviously not since i'm against war

You have to ask yourself, if the West had been running some of these places, would they be better?

Hong Kong, better under UK rule, its why they are fighting tooth and nail to keep it as it was.
Venezuela, no fault but the government for the complete mismanagement of their economy, no risk management, too much reliance on oil prices.
ME - whole place is a power vacuum. I find it hard to believe that anything that the US has done is the whole reason the ME can't get along. They have history..

 

[dowie]

The Americans lighted the initial sparks, the idiots carried it on from there.

Looks like permission will be revoked very soon.

I’m sure the Sunni and Kurdish populations of Iraq will be chuffed with that...

 

[FoxEye]

And thats exactly my point, thats what America would do if they could, but they obviously can't because of the sectarianism and power vacuums between the different Muslim sects.

Well I ask you again, why are we there? We can't improve things out there.

You said earlier we're there because we're Israel's allies and whatnot. You talked about Iran et al wanting to wipe Israel off the face of the Earth.

Is that the major reason as you see it?

 

[Trusty]

Well I ask you again, why are we there? We can't improve things out there.

You said earlier we're there because we're Israel's allies and whatnot. You talked about Iran et al wanting to wipe Israel off the face of the Earth.

Is that the major reason as you see it?

I didn't talk about Iran wanting to wipe Israel off the face of the earth, but it is true, you just have to watch on youtube with what the leaders say.

Errm, i've already said we shouldn't be involved, we should get out, the West is never going to be seen as people who want to install some stability and a thriving economy, too much sectarianism and too much propaganda from those sects hyping up and creating bigger power vacuums.

 

[B&W]

I’m sure the Sunni and Kurdish populations of Iraq will be chuffed with that...

As happy as when Saddam was removed from power...

 

[dowie]

As happy as when Saddam was removed from power...

Yeah cos that was really great for the Kurds, Marsh Arabs and Shia.

You seem to be going for the they need a brutal dictator idea/let’s ignore any atrocities as king as he’s brown and believes in the same magic sky fairy.

 

[B&W]

Yeah cos that was really great for the Kurds, Marsh Arabs and Shia.

You seem to be going for the they need a brutal dictator idea/let’s ignore any atrocities as king as he’s brown and believes in the same magic sky fairy.

I'm not going for any idea, just calling out the American invasion for what it was. Illegal invasion, destruction of a country and sparking a fire that still threatens to burn the whole region.

But according to you Mr white man can do no ill since he has a superior civilisation and doesn't believe in sky fairies instead he now believes in law and justice for all according to you.

Invading multiple countries, assassinating whoever they feel like but no they are innocent.....

Wake up.

 

[Panos]

And thats exactly my point, thats what America would do if they could, but they obviously can't because of the sectarianism and power vacuums between the different Muslim sects.

Middle East and N Africa had a pretty damn good balance between the various factions over the last 70 years.
Many of those countries because of the sectarianism cannot have "democracy". Saddam, Gaddafi, Assad, Mubarak regardless everything else always kept a balance protecting the minorities and hitting hard against any of those threatening toppling that balance from the inside.

The fanatics always saw this as oppression against them, but this isn't new. Same applied all way back to the Abhassid, Umayyad, Seljuk and Ottoman Empires who controlled this area.
Been Christian or any type of Muslim, didn't matter at all for thousands of years, because nobody ruling those lands wanted civil war so always did a severe crackdown to keep those steering trouble in check.

WE (UK, USA and lackeys) destroyed that balance allowing religious fanatical differences of over 1200 years taking up arms trying to fill the vacuum we are responsible for. If tomorrow someone topples the Saudi king, the same thing would happen in SA. Same thing would happen if someone topples the Jordan king, or Morocco's king. Hell give a big nudge to Turkey, a "democratic" country, and going to start burning.

Of all those countries the only one doesn't have the potential of sectarian civil war is Iran. That's why makes it too dangerous when everyone else is destabilized by our own hands.

Iran/Persia is very misunderstood country, and are morons those who believe would have a walk in the park in a country with very strong national identity going for 5000 years. Britain did it twice, in 1940 and 1955. But times were different.

 

[Panos]

Yeah cos that was really great for the Kurds, Marsh Arabs and Shia.

You seem to be going for the they need a brutal dictator idea/let’s ignore any atrocities as king as he’s brown and believes in the same magic sky fairy.

Go read the last 1200 years history of this area to understand why democracy will never work there.

 

[Dis86]

Go read the last 1200 years history of this area to understand why democracy will never work there.

Funnily enough western Europe used to have a similar history...

 

[Chris Wilson]

A great many Iranians were very pleased that America dispatched this man and were cheering Trump's actions, publicly and privately. But the press are hamstrung in Iran and the powers try only to allow them to post phonographic reports of anti American protests or they'll be chucked out (or worse). Many still regret the exile of the Shah in 1979. This is not a backwards country like many in the region, and Trump's actions may embolden the populace to do more than go on general strike to overthrow the regime that so fetters them. This is totally different mindset country to the likes of Iraq or Afghanistan or Libya. Anti Trump feelings are overshadowing the reality of what he needed to do.

 

[dowie]

I'm not going for any idea, just calling out the American invasion for what it was. Illegal invasion, destruction of a country and sparking a fire that still threatens to burn the whole region.

But according to you Mr white man can do no ill since he has a superior civilisation and doesn't believe in sky fairies instead he now believes in law and justice for all according to you.

Invading multiple countries, assassinating whoever they feel like but no they are innocent.....

Wake up.

You forgot to add “sheeple” at the end...

I think you’ll find Iraq decided to invade Kuwait and get involved in WMD etc... all by itself.