Race report: 'UK not deliberately rigged against ethnic minorities'

[The Running Man]

Maybe if right wing extremist groups like the BNP, EDL, Britain First etc and the National Front before them hadn't wrapped themselves in the Union flag it might not have such a bad vibe outside of sport. It's still associated with those groups and right wing extremism. Oh and it is the Union flag, its only the Union Jack when flown on a warship at sea.

And I'm not ashamed of my country. I wish we were more honest about our history and our children were taught our history, all the bad as well as the good in school. Sadly they still aren't.

If we all embraced it just a little bit more then it wouldn't be an issue.

 

[Kylevdm]

No, that's not what he said and that was my point originally.

Yes, some of us do feel the flag is tainted by its use, predominantly, by racists.

However, it is not the same as judging a whole group of people by the actions of a sub set of those people.

Which is where the example of doing that would mean you would then have to feel the whole UK population was tainted by the BNP came in. The poster never claimed that was the case though.

What he should perhaps have done is then come up with another example of the flag thing.

Like, possibly hoodies? They seem to have attracted a certain image you project if you wear one with the hood up for no reason.

This, I could have used different examples but frankly I have no idea why people put so much on a symbol. In reality I would never request the union flag be taken down from a building or anything else, but do find in incredibly stupid that people have so much pride in it and the country. The fact that the government have taken to putting flags up all over the place is a waste of money. No country is perfect and we should always be working to improve it. These improvements often come from welcoming other cultures and traditions to supplement our own, in work I always strive for best practice no matter where that comes from.

There was another comment somewhere about me religions not being tainted so something ridiculous and honestly, I think all religions are tainted by their actions, but this is a discussion about the country not religion - in my eyes Christianity is as bad as Islam and all religions cause more harm than good but that is an argument for another day.

 

[RizlaKing]

We all need to just stop debating, discussing and talking about racism because it's just a waste of time, effort and money. Those who believe in racism won't change their view and the same goes for those who don't believe it to be a major problem. It's become a lucrative industry and absolutely is not a subject where truth has any place or role to play so why bother anymore?. If your non white and feel that the UK is a racist place then have the courage of your convictions and leave if it's so bad here I'm sure there are many other countries where you'd be happier. Now that racism has become an industry we're now on the path to increased support for knuckle dragging far right group's and the tension will continue to build. I've only ever judged people by two things their words and their actions and today I'd be classed as a racist funny old world we've created.

I'm a guilt free white straight Male whose only privilege has been a genetic disease and I'm sick and tired of this crap.

 

[garnett]

We chose to fight Hitler.

Thank you for the part you played.

Maybe if we all were unashamed of our country and not afraid to show our loyalty to our country then you could do better to honour your nations heritage.

You just cannot shrug off this fallacious thinking, can you? Why is it so difficult for you to grasp the idea that flag =/= country?

Somebody can be patriotic without wanting to make themselves look like a ignorant xenophobic nationalist.

We all need to just stop debating, discussing and talking about racism because it's just a waste of time, effort and money. Those who believe in racism won't change their view and the same goes for those who don't believe it to be a major problem.

Why stop at racism, though? Why not all vices? Your flawed rationale here could be just as equally used as an excuse to give up trying to tackle any other vice or problem you might want indulged.

 

[RDM]

On the flag and BNP issue I am really surprised at the number of racists that really like classical music considering the number of British flags at the Proms...

Linking the Union Flag to racism is lazy.

 

[Colonel_Klinck]

On the flag and BNP issue I am really surprised at the number of racists that really like classical music considering the number of British flags at the Proms...

Linking the Union Flag to racism is lazy.

The Union Flag being at the Proms or at State/national events is completely normal and to be expected. It being on government building at all levels is normal. It being used by the public at international sporting events is normal. People flying it in their front garden or getting in your face about it is in my experience not so great. They are, in my experience either making some point or have fairly extreme nationalistic views. I've little time for either.

 

[Junglist]

It being used by the public at international sporting events is normal. People flying it in their front garden

To be fair, I only ever really see that happen during the World Cup or Euros. Though it's often St Georges Cross opposed to the Union Flag.

 

[BowdonUK]

Where have I said Islam was anti Nazi? The fact is though that hundreds of thousands of Muslims volunteered to fight for the allies.

I agree with you that hundreds of thousands of Muslims fought with the British. Though I'm not sure how many felt they had a free choice to fight with us. But either way all members of the Commonwealth who fought with us should be rightfully honoured.

I'm not comparing the BNP to ISIS. They were an extremist party though and to use your example the Nazi Party was a lawful political party. Thankfully we never got to find out what a BNP majority in government could do in this country. I think we can all agree it wouldn't have been good though, unless you were a racist POS, then it would have been like Xmas everyday.

This is why I'm reluctant to change the voting system in this country to a form of PR. I'm not sure what the voting systems in other countries were back then. But today extremist parties can be elected to those countries parliament. There are instances were far-right groups have become the biggest single party in a parliament because of a version of PR.

To get someone elected to be an MP is a very valuable situation. If the BNP had got even one MP it would have changed the political landscape in this country forever. The fact that they and UKIP were gaining support for Brexit was said to be one of the motives for Cameron calling for the referendum quickly to try and head off the support. But he made a miscalculation.

Getting back to the thread topic, I could easily say that there is institutional discrimination against disability, as most people I meet discriminate against me either passively or obviously. My personal experience is that I face some form of discrimination most days. But the difference is I know that its down to individuals and because I can speak and express myself then I feel it is my job to educate people about disability. Most people don't know directly a disabled person, so they don't know how to act at first. They usually assume the most extreme stereotype on first look.

It is just a fact that if you don't look like the majority of people then you'll be discriminated against in some way. It is difficult enough to prove that discrimination happens at all, even though we all know it does on an individual level e.g. someone writing a certain name might not get the job over someone less qualified. But even that is hard to prove because only the discriminators know the truth. If I put I have a disability on a form there is evidence disabled people are discriminated against. But as to if that is systematic is extremely difficult to prove. Also what does systematic mean? That everyone knows each other is discriminating against people? That it is acceptable to do that? I've met only a couple of people in my life that would admit to doing that.

The report says racism exists. But it doesn't say it is systematic. Surely it is on the people claiming it is systematic to prove it?

 

[Reality|Bites]

I just feel that in todays world we are being backed into a corner with all the social justice going on, where it's the scummy people looking for an excuse and an easy life crying the loudest.
At the other end we have the people who are quite well to do supporting them as they have no real life experience of living in these social situations and only know the theory of it and what should be done but doesn't actually work that way with everyone being different.
I suppose in my day to day life I don't see it as I just treat everyone the same based on how they treat me, the only thing that stirs the pot in my head is the stuff put up on youtube, but in the grand scheme of it they are just a few ants in the world of billions of decent hard working moral people.

 

[Colonel_Klinck]

To be fair, I only ever really see that happen during the World Cup or Euros. Though it's often St Georges Cross opposed to the Union Flag.

Sticking St George's flag in your window for the Euros/World Cup, I put a St Georges flag up in the window for Euro 96. What I'm talking about is people with the Union Flag on a flag pole in their front garden. There is a guy a 1/4 of a mile away from me with a Union Flag on a flag pole. I was in my local garage almost opposite his house getting an MOT when he came in, he knew the garage owner and was chatting away and I couldn't help but overhear the conversation. This was back in 2016 before the Brexit vote. Brexit came up and he went on a joyful xenophobic rant about how we are going to kick out all the immigrants and get Britain back to a country for British people. The racist undertones were obvious and he didn't give a damn who heard him. I've got zero time for such knuckle draggers.

 

[Reality|Bites]

He's just had a bad experience I suppose? you get good and bad in all groups? It was his way for how many years then strangers came and started demands for change? who knows?

 

[dowie]

Sticking St George's flag in your window for the Euros/World Cup, I put a St Georges flag up in the window for Euro 96. What I'm talking about is people with the Union Flag on a flag pole in their front garden. There is a guy a 1/4 of a mile away from me with a Union Flag on a flag pole. I was in my local garage almost opposite his house getting an MOT when he came in, he knew the garage owner and was chatting away and I couldn't help but overhear the conversation. This was back in 2016 before the Brexit vote. Brexit came up and he went on a joyful xenophobic rant about how we are going to kick out all the immigrants and get Britain back to a country for British people. The racist undertones were obvious and he didn't give a damn who heard him. I've got zero time for such knuckle draggers.

Ironically this is the same sort of lazy pattern matching that racists engage in. Here is an anecdote about one person to justify why I don't like people like that in general.

The Union Flag being at the Proms or at State/national events is completely normal and to be expected. It being on government building at all levels is normal. It being used by the public at international sporting events is normal. People flying it in their front garden or getting in your face about it is in my experience not so great. They are, in my experience either making some point or have fairly extreme nationalistic views. I've little time for either.

If they were to integrate better then perhaps you'd like them more? Don't mind their culture if it's some important event etc.. but otherwise, through the rest of the year, they ought to assimilate a bit more right? Otherwise, it's just too in your face.

 

[Reality|Bites]

I wonder what has been said on Spanish message boards over the years about all the Brits moving there?

 

[Narj]

If they were to integrate better then perhaps you'd like them more? Don't mind their culture if it's some important event etc.. but otherwise, through the rest of the year, they ought to assimilate a bit more right? Otherwise, it's just too in your face.

There's an Indian family near me that fly the Union Flag and also used to fly a big flag with the Queen and Prince Philip in the middle of it...

 

[Colonel_Klinck]

I agree with you that hundreds of thousands of Muslims fought with the British. Though I'm not sure how many felt they had a free choice to fight with us. But either way all members of the Commonwealth who fought with us should be rightfully honoured.

That army was the largest volunteer army the world have ever seen. I can't say why they joined, maybe for the pay, maybe in the hope they might get a passport to England but they weren't conscripted.

This is why I'm reluctant to change the voting system in this country to a form of PR. I'm not sure what the voting systems in other countries were back then. But today extremist parties can be elected to those countries parliament. There are instances were far-right groups have become the biggest single party in a parliament because of a version of PR.

To get someone elected to be an MP is a very valuable situation. If the BNP had got even one MP it would have changed the political landscape in this country forever. The fact that they and UKIP were gaining support for Brexit was said to be one of the motives for Cameron calling for the referendum quickly to try and head off the support. But he made a miscalculation.

Getting back to the thread topic, I could easily say that there is institutional discrimination against disability, as most people I meet discriminate against me either passively or obviously. My personal experience is that I face some form of discrimination most days. But the difference is I know that its down to individuals and because I can speak and express myself then I feel it is my job to educate people about disability. Most people don't know directly a disabled person, so they don't know how to act at first. They usually assume the most extreme stereotype on first look.

It is just a fact that if you don't look like the majority of people then you'll be discriminated against in some way. It is difficult enough to prove that discrimination happens at all, even though we all know it does on an individual level e.g. someone writing a certain name might not get the job over someone less qualified. But even that is hard to prove because only the discriminators know the truth. If I put I have a disability on a form there is evidence disabled people are discriminated against. But as to if that is systematic is extremely difficult to prove. Also what does systematic mean? That everyone knows each other is discriminating against people? That it is acceptable to do that? I've met only a couple of people in my life that would admit to doing that.

The report says racism exists. But it doesn't say it is systematic. Surely it is on the people claiming it is systematic to prove it?

Those are the risks of democracy though. I would definitely support a change to our current system. TBH I've not looked hard at the alternative because I can't see us getting the chance to vote on it anytime soon. Why would the party in power want to change the system that delivered them the win? All they care about is retaining power.

Disabled people are most defiantly still discriminated against. Although I think things are genuinely improving a lot. My dad had a severe stoke when he was 49, that is 31 years ago now. It left him in a wheelchair, without his speech other than the ability to swear lol. Just in that time we've noticed a dramatic change in accessibility to places. Obviously this experience doesn't cover what most disabled people have to deal with with work etc as he was never able to work again. He can go more places now than he could when he had the stroke.

I've got no idea personally what people of colour have to deal with racism wise other than from what friends who aren't white have told me. It's still out there though, its never gone away. Life is difficult enough sometimes without that being thrown at you as well.

 

[arknor]

There's an Indian family near me that fly the Union Flag and also used to fly a big flag with the Queen and Prince Philip in the middle of it...

indians seemed to be one of the best at integrating though at-least back in my day.

they legit seemed grateful to be here in the 80s and 90s

now it seems like all the immigrants we get are to focused on religion and act like it forbids them from mixing with others.

chinese people don't seem that much better either, all the chinese students I see are always with other chinese students, they never seem to hang out with the english students.

(I live near tons of uni apartment blocks, some focused on the chinese international students, they even have chinese adverts on the buildings saying rooms to let rather than english.) so it's something I get to observe often on my walks.

in Zurich a lot of the english people I met were basically not willing to learn the language to become friends with non english people though.

like at toddler groups in the city library there would always be a few english people that stuck together, one of them was trying to learn german using google translate... like......

your husbands probably well off I'm sure you could afford some proper lessons and make an effort to integrate in to society

 

[Reality|Bites]

Only white on black racism though as it can't go both ways for some reason?

 

[Terminal_Boy]

I wonder what has been said on Spanish message boards over the years about all the Brits moving there?

“Hey Carlos! We can make a fortune selling warm beer and fried crap to these English idiots and the dodgy ones pay cash so we don’t even have to declare all our income!”

 

[Tony Edwards]

Only white on black racism though as it can't go both ways for some reason?

Of course it can. What is wrong with some of you? Racism is racism.

 

[robgmun]

I just feel that in todays world we are being backed into a corner with all the social justice going on, where it's the scummy people looking for an excuse and an easy life crying the loudest.

Honestly, this is how it always came across to me. And I will not be brainwashed into thinking otherwise no matter how much the MSM tries to psyops me.