Race report: 'UK not deliberately rigged against ethnic minorities'

[VincentHanna]

The idea that terrorism in the UK is somehow worse in the last 20 years when we had the IRA killing 1000+ people over the previous 30 years is a strange re-writing of history.

 

[potatolord]

Ah the irony that the largest volunteer army the world has ever seen had a 1/3 of it made up by men who would today of been Pakistani. Honestly you Billy Britain types always forget that the British armed services were dwarfed by those from around our Empire that stepped up to fight against the Germany, Italy and Japan. We didn't win the war, although lots here would have you believe the delusion that we did.

Can you provide some evidence for your claim "a 1/3 of it made up by men who would today of been Pakistani"? That doesn't match up to anything I've seen before. Maybe the volunteer point is key, so can you tell me your reference point?

If you would also provide some relevant information about the relative proportions by which " the British armed services were dwarfed by those from around our Empire that stepped up to fight against the Germany, Italy".

As far as I can tell, your second claim is false. If you have figures to support that claim, I'd be very Interested in seeing them.

 

[VincentHanna]

Can you provide some evidence for your claim "a 1/3 of it made up by men who would today of been Pakistani"? That doesn't match up to anything I've seen before. Maybe the volunteer point is key, so can you tell me your reference point?

If you would also provide some relevant information about the relative proportions by which " the British armed services were dwarfed by those from around our Empire that stepped up to fight against the Germany, Italy".

As far as I can tell, your second claim is false. If you have figures to support that claim, I'd be very Interested in seeing them.

I didn't post the claim, but a quick google confirms:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ww2peopleswar/timeline/factfiles/nonflash/a6651218.shtml

Over two and a half million Indian men volunteered for service, producing the largest volunteer army in history. Many fought against the Japanese in Burma, but Indian soldiers also served in North and East Africa, Italy and Greece.

Since this occurred before the partition of India, they would have all been Indian, but in 1947 after the split there were 330 million Indians and 60 million Pakistani's, so it was probably more like 1/6th not 1/3rd

Still substantial.

But it certainly seems that there were more soldiers from the British isles (around 5 million) than people from the Empire (around 3 1/2 million), so that claim is false.

 

[Kylevdm]

But it certainly seems that there were more soldiers from the British isles (around 5 million) than people from the Empire (around 3 1/2 million), so that claim is false.

I am bored at work so have been looking into this, the number of 5.9m seems to include all British Empire troops with the British Army fielding 2.9 million at its peak and India supplying 2.5 million.

 

[FoxEye]

The Union flag is sadly stained by years of the likes of the National Front, British National Party, Britain First and all the other knuckle draggers who wrap themselves in it. I've also got little time for extreme "patriotism" like you get in the US.

If I was to say, "Islam is stained by the likes of IS," you would vehemently disagree, I'm sure.

So why is it fine to say what you just said?

 

[potatolord]

I didn't post the claim, but a quick google confirms:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ww2peopleswar/timeline/factfiles/nonflash/a6651218.shtml



Since this occurred before the partition of India, they would have all been Indian, but in 1947 after the split there were 330 million Indians and 60 million Pakistani's, so it was probably more like 1/6th not 1/3rd

Still substantial.

But it certainly seems that there were more soldiers from the British isles (around 5 million) than people from the Empire (around 3 1/2 million), so that claim is false.

Ta for that, pretty much confirms what I thought: the volunteer point was key (though his proportion was off) and the second claim was false.

It's always useful to check.

 

[VincentHanna]

If I was to say, "Islam is stained by the likes of IS," you would vehemently disagree, I'm sure.

So why is it fine to say what you just said?

Completely different things.

There isn't an "Islamic" flag - ISIS used a jihadist flag, so there isn't a way for "Islam" to stain the flag of one particular country.

I get what he means - Morrissey was criticised in the 90's for wrapping himself in the Union jack and being a right-wing weirdo.

 

[FoxEye]

Completely different things.

There isn't an "Islamic" flag - ISIS used a jihadist flag, so there isn't a way for "Islam" to stain the flag of one particular country.

I get what he means - Morrissey was criticised in the 90's for wrapping himself in the Union jack and being a right-wing weirdo.

No it isn't. The fundamental idea is that you can dismiss something for the actions of a subset of the people involved or associated with that thing.

If you/he can dismiss the union flag - call it "tainted by the BNP" - then it must be fair game to dismiss islam - call it "tainted by IS".

Anything else is rank hypocrisy.

 

[Kylevdm]

No it isn't. The fundamental idea is that you can dismiss something for the actions of a subset of the people involved or associated with that thing.

If you/he can dismiss the union flag - call it "tainted by the BNP" - then it must be fair game to dismiss islam - call it "tainted by IS".

Anything else is rank hypocrisy.

A country and a religion cannot be equated though especially not in the way you are attempting. A better example would be to say that the country as a whole has been tainted by the likes of the BNP/UKIP/EDL. But the flag itself is not involved in this comparison. The reason the flag is an issue to many, including myself is that it is used as the symbol of these groups. It is the symbolism, and the fact that right seem to be so happy to use the flag as a symbol of the diabolical behaviour.

In regards to the earlier example of the EU flag being used by many who don't want to use the union flag is that it represents a better world to many of us. I want to participate in a project that is looking to improve the lives of many whilst not just thinking about the country in which I live. We all live on the same planet and should be working together not just looking to help ourselves.

 

[FoxEye]

A country and a religion cannot be equated though especially not in the way you are attempting. A better example would be to say that the country as a whole has been tainted by the likes of the BNP/UKIP/EDL. But the flag itself is not involved in this comparison. The reason the flag is an issue to many, including myself is that it is used as the symbol of these groups. It is the symbolism, and the fact that right seem to be so happy to use the flag as a symbol of the diabolical behaviour.

Oh so now the whole UK (as a country) has been "tainted by the BNP" but islam is still immune from any negative "taint" from IS?

This gets better and better.

You guys have no self-awareness do you?

You are claiming the whole country is tainted by the BNP. Just think about that, lol.

 

[banbom44]

A lot of people want a government that is proud to be British, so Boris has made sure to promote the fact that his government is proudly British by showing the Union Jack unashamedly. Obviously this riles the lunatics on the left who go abroad and are embarrassed to tell people they're British because of some strange sense of guilt they have.

Correct that's why Labour are losing their heartlands they are going to lose the Hartlepool by election because they have a problem with patriotism the Labour party is full of lefties who hate their own country they shriek in horror when they see the Union flag.

 

[banbom44]

The idea that terrorism in the UK is somehow worse in the last 20 years when we had the IRA killing 1000+ people over the previous 30 years is a strange re-writing of history.

1000 British soldiers and 644 civilians that lot killed most of the money sent from Boston and New York from plastic paddies who thought blowing Brits up was somehow romantic.

 

[mmj_uk]

In regards to the earlier example of the EU flag being used by many who don't want to use the union flag is that it represents a better world to many of us. I want to participate in a project that is looking to improve the lives of many whilst not just thinking about the country in which I live. We all live on the same planet and should be working together not just looking to help ourselves.

If it's a better world then why did Brexit happen? why did they have to bring in new treaties through force rather than the consent of the peoples of Europe?

 

[Hotwired]

Pakistan is a hell of an example to compare as being more nationalistic.

Pakistan (mostly Muslim) was created in a split from India (Mostly Hindu) 71 years ago when Britain bailed. Then India, still upset about that, helped Bangladesh (still mostly Muslims) split from Pakistan 50 years ago and all of that involved lots of fighting, killing, mistreatment of civilians and hurtful words.

They get along like Ireland and Northern Ireland over there, recent historical foes and regular reminders that the neighbours want to kill them keeps the nationalism high and the armed forces are busy defending the country in a very literal sense.

Creation and defence of their country is what their flag has stood for in very recent history.

Meanwhile in our ultra safe island we mostly get scrotes planting our flag in their *** and whinging about too many foreigners rather than doing amazing work for the country and sticking our flag on it.

Given the number of terririst attacks we gave endured lately and the number foiled, the wars we have fought ww1, ww2, for the effective freedom of the world to avoid being racially discriminated against or simply outright killed by the germans etc, I think we too won the right to fly our flag.

Funny you should mention freedom and racial tolerance as being a reason to fly the flag. Isn't the political use of flags dominated by the aforementioned scrotes who quite openly want the opposite.

 

[Roar87]

Funny you should mention freedom and racial tolerance as being a reason to fly the flag. Isn't the political use of flags dominated by the aforementioned scrotes who quite openly want the opposite.

No that's just something you've made up in your head again

 

[FoxEye]

Well the idea that we are "one nation" is frankly laughable at this point, so maybe Bradford and Birmingham should just fly their own flags anyhow.

Divide and conquer is certainly working at treat in the UK.

 

[Hotwired]

No that's just something you've made up in your head again

Obviously supporters don't think of it that way.

But it is.

 

[Roar87]

Obviously supporters don't think of it that way.

But it is.

Nice generalisation, I'm sure you hate those going the other way, probably call them "racist". But hey it's okay if you're insulting predominantly white working class people because you can just **** all over them and it's cool

 

[Mr Badger]

Ah the irony that the largest volunteer army the world has ever seen had a 1/3 of it made up by men who would today of been Pakistani. Honestly you Billy Britain types always forget that the British armed services were dwarfed by those from around our Empire that stepped up to fight against the Germany, Italy and Japan. We didn't win the war, although lots here would have you believe the delusion that we did. If it hadn't been for all those other countries citizens and the Yanks we'd all be typing in German right now. That isn't to take anything from British servicemen and women who fought, my paternal grandfather was at Dunkirk, got buried in a building that was shelled and spent 18 month in hospital recovering, though he never really recovered from the PTSD from his experience. My respect from them is bottomless, my respect for those that try and ride on their coattails while spouting nonsense is no existent.

The Union flag is sadly stained by years of the likes of the National Front, British National Party, Britain First and all the other knuckle draggers who wrap themselves in it. I've also got little time for extreme "patriotism" like you get in the US.

Don't forget the Russians. Arguably the Red Army did more to defeat Germany than everyone else combined. They certainly had the casualties to show for it.

 

[Hotwired]

Nice generalisation, I'm sure you hate those going the other way

Heh.

I think the report has a better suggestion than many in dropping focus on promoting minorities and addressing the more general issues which affect the poorest end of society.

After all, isn't the membership of far right islam hating groups (with side hobbies which revolve around dislike of foreigners) dominated by young white men with poor backgrounds, bad education and a huge reliance on social benefits who feel disenfranchised and second class citizens as they see minorities getting special treatment over them.