Yes, but honestly you're so detached from the groups of people you're speaking about that you have no clue. I'm from a white working class area, I used to work in a local pub, the reality is just far different from what you understand. You do realise groups like the BNP were speaking about the Asian rape gangs in Rotherham before the main stream media and Police arrested all those people? You do realise they were being called racist and spat on while they were calling out that groups of Asian men pick up girls and rape them? I know this because one of their meetings was held at the pub I worked at (this will have been in 2008 or 2009) and I was working the shift that night. So, are they racist? Yep. Do they have genuine concerns? Also yes. By the way, most of the men from these groups have jobs and aren't reliant on benefits, but yes the schools they went to were poor, their parents weren't the best, probably because their parents were brought up by men suffering from PTSD from WW2, men who worked 12 hours literally "down the pit". So maybe consider some of these factors before you **** on groups of people because you're quick enough to point out the pains of the past minorities are suffering from.
Race report: 'UK not deliberately rigged against ethnic minorities'
- Thread starter Skunkworks
- Start date
Yes, but honestly you're so detached from the groups of people you're speaking about that you have no clue. I'm from a white working class area, I used to work in a local pub, the reality is just far different from what you understand. You do realise groups like the BNP were speaking about the Asian rape gangs in Rotherham before the main stream media and Police arrested all those people? You do realise they were being called racist and spat on while they were calling out that groups of Asian men pick up girls and rape them? I know this because one of their meetings was held at the pub I worked at (this will have been in 2008 or 2009) and I was working the shift that night. So, are they racist? Yep. Do they have genuine concerns? Also yes. By the way, most of the men from these groups have jobs and aren't reliant on benefits, but yes the schools they went to were poor, their parents weren't the best, probably because their parents were brought up by men suffering from PTSD from WW2, men who worked 12 hours literally "down the pit". So maybe consider some of these factors before you **** on groups of people because you're quick enough to point out the pains of the past minorities are suffering from.
He didnt say that, this is why you get so many things wrong, you don't read what was written and leap to ridiculous conclusions.
What he said was, that IF you're going to use ISIS to slam all Muslims than you have to say the BNP have tainted the UK.
He, I dont believe, holds the former view, while you do, and so would also have to hold the 2nd view too.
He was pointing out the hypocrisy of your position.
I don't think I've said anything special to support minorities. Ever? I'm in favour of a fair shot far more than special privileges of ethnicity or sex.
I've very often said something against enthusiastic racism, hate for muslims in general and foreigners because that's been regular themes that come up. It's all very well having legitimate complaints in there somewhere but the BNP etc attracts and welcomes a lot of people who fancy those previous categories and that's where the bad name and suspect flag symbolism comes from. What's the decency in being a part of a group that lets generic hatred be part of its brand just to pad the numbers.
This is entirely backwards when the union flag being tainted was mentioned first in the current discussion (i.e., the relevant discussion).
As always, you just see what you want to.
My position was that you can't have it both ways. You can't say the union flag is tainted by the BNP and then assert that islam is not tainted by IS.
If you could read and follow a thread, then you wouldn't jump to wrong conclusions. Actually, I expect you would, because it suits you to do so. You and your ilk are always willing to be disingenuous and use deception to progress your "cause".
For reference.
Check again, I didnt refer to any earlier discussion about flags, I simply pointed out that the poster hadn't said what you claimed they had said before you had a little tantrum about self awareness and 'you guys'.
Yes, this is true but only that way around. There is some shared ideology there when it comes to ISIS and Islam, arguably some of the fundamentals... which modern, moderate Muslims have to downplay. There isn't necessarily much in the way of shared ideology between some non-BNP supporting British person who likes the union jack vs the BNP and their anti-capitalist, national socialist-inspired ideology.
I stand by everything I said, and here's his post I responded to.
Pretty clear what he's saying here.
The flag and the country are tainted in his view by the BNP, etc.
Indeed, I agree, but saying that invites many here to start screaming about racism.
No, that's not what he said and that was my point originally.
Yes, some of us do feel the flag is tainted by its use, predominantly, by racists.
However, it is not the same as judging a whole group of people by the actions of a sub set of those people.
Which is where the example of doing that would mean you would then have to feel the whole UK population was tainted by the BNP came in. The poster never claimed that was the case though.
What he should perhaps have done is then come up with another example of the flag thing.
Like, possibly hoodies? They seem to have attracted a certain image you project if you wear one with the hood up for no reason.
Soldato
- Joined
- 3 Oct 2007
- Posts
- 12,169
- Location
- London, UK
You are attempting to compare a national flag or those who use it for their twisted political agenda to a religion of over 1.9 billion people. Why am I not surprised you'd use Islam in a lame attempt at an argument.
Soldato
- Joined
- 3 Oct 2007
- Posts
- 12,169
- Location
- London, UK
You were attempting to say that we did the world a favour beating the Germans and so everyone should be grateful. I was just pointing out that is nonsense and without the help of other nations including men who were Muslims and would today be Pakistani, we would be speaking German.
You clearly have fairly extreme right wing views, you're entitled to those views. I grew up in the age of the National Front and its high jacking of the Union Flag. Then came the BNP who were just the National Front in new clothes. I have zero time for such extremist ideologies. I have no time for extreme patriotic views or expecting people to have them and people who wrap themselves in the Union Flag tend to have political views I don't agree with. I support England and Great Britain in sporting events and that's as far as it goes. I've no interest in Nationalism, that path always tends to lead to hate.
You've confused me with someone else. I've not spoken about the war/the Germans.
Oh in a previous thread I did say that holding modern Germans accountable for the events of WW2 was preposterous. That's about the only time I've mentioned the war or the Germans that I can recall.
Perhaps you could kindly stop making things up?
Again either you're carefully building a fiction of me for your own benefit, or you're mistaking me for someone else.
I even said a couple pages ago "I'm not a flag-waver and never have been."
I do think it is nonsense of the highest order that anyone living in this country should feel antagonised by the Union flag.
That's something I did say.
Can we just be clear though, the only country who stood up to Germany when given a choice was Britain with our Empire. We didn't have to fight them, the Americans were dragged into the war following Pearl Harbor and largely wanted nothing to do with another "European war", and Russia was invaded. We chose to fight Hitler and the outcome for Britain was a very harsh post war period compared to America and what would become the USSR, we gave up our Empire to defeat Nazi Germany and faced an existential threat in doing so.
I don't know who you are replying to. But just reading through the posts in this one you're making a generalisation. Of course it wasn't just Britain alone who fought Nazi Germany. I doubt many people would make that argument (only the extreme racists and/or ignorant people).
But at the same time to suggest Islam as a body group was anti-Nazi is also untrue. It is well documented of Hitler talking to the Grand Mufti about forming an alliance of their common enemy, the Jews. Mein Kampf was written and sold well in Arabic.
What the mufti said to Hitler
https://www.timesofisrael.com/full-official-record-what-the-mufti-said-to-hitler/
Ok, this part isn't address to you, I'm just tagging it on from observations of other posts on the thread.
I think comparing the BNP, a legal and lawful political party to ISIS who are beheading people on camera as well as committing horrific crimes can't even be compared.
Soldato
- Joined
- 3 Oct 2007
- Posts
- 12,169
- Location
- London, UK
Where have I said Islam was anti Nazi? The fact is though that hundreds of thousands of Muslims volunteered to fight for the allies.
I'm not comparing the BNP to ISIS. They were an extremist party though and to use your example the Nazi Party was a lawful political party. Thankfully we never got to find out what a BNP majority in government could do in this country. I think we can all agree it wouldn't have been good though, unless you were a racist POS, then it would have been like Xmas everyday.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 37,804
- Location
- block 16, cell 12
They did along with hundreds of thousands from many countries around the world.
Doesn't mean we shouldn't be proud as a nation and be able to fly the union jack.
You're quite right, for once, we should be proud.
As it is, the likes of yourself have hijacked what it stands for. I bought a house with army Union Jack flags pinned on the walls in the garage from when my bro in law served, I took them down.
Not because I'm ashamed of being British or to demean his service, but because I wouldn't want to be thought of as the sort of person who makes a big thing of the flag these days.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 37,804
- Location
- block 16, cell 12
Maybe if we all were unashamed of our country and not afraid to show our loyalty to our country then you could do better to honour your nations heritage.
Could you honour the English language and post something that makes any sense, please?
Soldato
- Joined
- 3 Oct 2007
- Posts
- 12,169
- Location
- London, UK
Maybe if right wing extremist groups like the BNP, EDL, Britain First etc and the National Front before them hadn't wrapped themselves in the Union flag it might not have such a bad vibe outside of sport. It's still associated with those groups and right wing extremism. Oh and it is the Union flag, its only the Union Jack when flown on a warship at sea.
And I'm not ashamed of my country. I wish we were more honest about our history and our children were taught our history, all the bad as well as the good in school. Sadly they still aren't.