Significant incident Plymouth

[Nasher]

well suicide is seen as violence against oneself. So that can be seen as just as significant a drawback of ownership of guns.

People will always find ways to kill themselves, or hurt others. You'd have to ban gravity and rocks.

 

[Roar87]

Also as another point @Thekwango how does keeping your gun at a range prohibit the guy doing what he did? If a guy wanted to shoot up a load of people, he can just go to the range, get his gun and do what he wants to do. Location of the gun I don't really think makes much difference, preventing nutters from owning guns is the more pressing issue here.

Wow bro stop talking nonsense we just need stricter laws because a crime was committed that was already against the law

 

[tenofspades]

'BREAKING: Five people who died in Plymouth last night have been named by police. Maxine Davison, 50, mother of the gunman. 3-year-old Sophie Martyn and her dad, Lee Martyn, 40. Stephen Washington, 59. Kate Shepherd, 66. Gunman Jake Davison, 22, also died.'

 

[Mason-]

So were the other people (apart from his mother) just seemingly in the wrong place at the wrong time? i.e. he was killing indiscriminately?

 

[200sols]

Obviously not if a woman hating incel black pill extremist with questionable mental health issues is able to go on a killing spree with a legally held firearm

Short of.banning all guns what is your solution? This sort of incident is already incredibly rare in the UK. Knee-jerk reactions will only cause the overwhelming majority to suffer.

 

[Freakbro]

This is a pretty questionable argument. If it was happening very often I'd agree with you, but it's not. Compare gun related incidents in UK vs US? Why do we have significantly less, because we have gun control laws. They work, demonstrably. I can guarantee you there is no law you can enforce that would stop these things from happening. Bad people do bad things. You will find this in every history book since we could write.

Stabbing happens with kitchen knife -> knife licenses on all knives. Have to be stored in a special knife cabinet that a police man has to inspect regularly.
Someone kills someone while speeding -> GPS based speed limiters in all cars so that no one can exceed speed limits.
Man molests child -> Humans aren't allowed to interact with anyone under the age of 18 unless they're their own children.

We can all come up with ridiculous laws/restrictions to reduce crimes. You have to balance it with freedoms. The current gun laws are fine for the most part. Gun related incidents in the UK are very low. I think that we should have more checks and balances on gun owners with regards to their mental state. But ultimately no matter what is done we won't be able to prevent this happening completely.

Yep, pretty much. The bit in bold, I wasn't sure what the current rules were so had a quick look

https://www.shootinguk.co.uk/shotgu...ertificate/depression-and-gun-ownership-50713

Seems a bit wooly around depression and stress, no statutory requirement for disclosure until renewal of the licence and with doctors

A doctor’s duty

It is possible that, having assessed your condition, your GP may decide it is his duty to tell the police. The Home Office Guide on Firearms Licensing Law recognises this: “10.30 There is no requirement for a GP to monitor or assess a patient who currently holds a firearm certificate, but there is a duty for a doctor to disclose information where they believe the patient may present a risk of death or serious harm to themselves or others.”

Maybe could tighten that up a bit.

 

[dlockers]

So were the other people (apart from his mother) just seemingly in the wrong place at the wrong time? i.e. he was killing indiscriminately?

Yes.

Something like a 3 year old and her dad, 2 shot but not killed, then 2 further killed. Numbers don't add up though as he also killed his mum.

Edit: some sites are counting himself as the 6th victim.

 

[Antipasti]

Can sympathise with the guy a bit. Dating sites are shoddy for a guy's confidence. My housemate tattooed all over, muscled to the brim, gets attention out and about, but online dating- nothing.
I think the pandemic hasn't been a help, stopping people mixing for a year, mental health taking a backfoot as they're behind.

GTFO

 

[Dis86]

Also as another point @Thekwango how does keeping your gun at a range prohibit the guy doing what he did? If a guy wanted to shoot up a load of people, he can just go to the range, get his gun and do what he wants to do. Location of the gun I don't really think makes much difference, preventing nutters from owning guns is the more pressing issue here.

I'd argue it at least gives more time for him to dwell on what he's about to do which may possibly be all that is required to put an end to it.
Course that's pretty hopeful thinking.

 

[Tefal]

Dunno, I expect they have similar problems. Maybe one massive walk in safe, like banks? Also tracking devices on the unsold guns that aren't easily removed? They could also remove parts of the guns that make them useless until sold.

Those options aren't very plausible for the scenario of owners having their guns stored at gun clubs.

Why aren't they?

Time locked safes and a decent alarm same as any safe deposit place.

When they're all in one place the police know to respond heavily and quickly

 

[dlockers]

GTFO

Illustrates my point though, there are a lot of 'normal' folk who think like this nut case and they aren't being condemned. Read the dating thread in GD FFS.

 

[Tefal]

Also as another point @Thekwango how does keeping your gun at a range prohibit the guy doing what he did? If a guy wanted to shoot up a load of people, he can just go to the range, get his gun and do what he wants to do. Location of the gun I don't really think makes much difference, preventing nutters from owning guns is the more pressing issue here.

He can't remove it from the range? If you want it at a different range you pay secure transport and meet it there

He might turn it on others there but like spectators at race track they know the risks.

Range some distance from buit up areas (assuwthis anyway for the noise?)

Means rapid polic response is possible before he reaches children

 

[Antipasti]

I know the area where this person did his shooting. Quite a rough area.

What's your point?

 

[C.R.A.Z.Y]

Short of.banning all guns what is your solution? This sort of incident is already incredibly rare in the UK. Knee-jerk reactions will only cause the overwhelming majority to suffer.

Ban all guns for recreational use imho.
If you like target practise and shooting then get a good air rifle!

''overwhelming majority to suffer''
lol
Very few people have firearms licence

 

[Lysander]

Illustrates my point though, there are a lot of 'normal' folk who think like this nut case and they aren't being condemned.

Mods must condemn.

 

[Kenai]

I'd argue it at least gives more time for him to dwell on what he's about to do which may possibly be all that is required to put an end to it.
Course that's pretty hopeful thinking.

Hopeful but entirely logical - whilst nowhere near the same level of extreme behaviour, i'm sure plenty of us have felt angry and an impulsive urge to do something stupid in that anger which rapidly subsides when you have a few minutes to cool off.

It's probably not really that far fetched to think the act of having to drive 15 minutes to the range to collect a weapon could cause someone to think themselves back down (or even that someone serving them could stop them, refuse to give them the gun or report a concern etc.)

It'll be interesting to find out if that sort of arrangement would have made any difference at all here but it's not an entirely illogical change to make regardless for things like 'sport' guns, it would be an improvement.

 

[Dis86]

@Thekwango think I'm in agreement with you now

 

[DJMK4]

Horrid events that unfolded. We do have strict gun laws but this could have been avoided via the method if the appropriate action was taken on the raise of his mental health.

Sad to see the victims. Specially the dad and the 2 year old. The husband and wife and Facebook profiles and a loving family torn apart


Having a store at a range is not going to work. As a large population for example of shotgun certs are used for game shooting, pest control like wood pidgeon control, rabbit control , then I guess you do have the clay sporters.

 

[BowdonUK]

Seriously? It doesn't work, look at the USA

If you were the father of the 3 year old child (both died) you wouldn't want to be armed?

 

[Thekwango]

@Thekwango think I'm in agreement with you now

I knew you were man, we just couldn’t find the common ground to agree as such

media: joking aside, to me it makes perfect sense. Firearms for leisure purposes are stored at a designated gun club of owners choice. farmers and the likes who may need access to a gun for professional use would obviously be exempt and would still be able to securely store at home.
it’s a mild inconvenience for the casual gun enthusiast but puts an extra barrier to using one for killing. Not sure why some folk are getting so uptight about the idea.

 

[C.R.A.Z.Y]

If you were the father of the 3 year old child (both died) you wouldn't want to be armed?

People like you really need to stop watching Hollywood films!
Even if he was armed the probability of him being able to un-holster remove safety take aim and kill before being shot is vanishingly small!