Significant incident Plymouth

Zenduri said:
The second and most important failing here is the police. When doing the background checks they are required to check things like social media platforms for concerns about gun ownership and if they had checked his youtube channel 100% they wouldnt have granted him a license or revoked his license. His youtube channel was created 20th Jul 2016, licenses last for 5 years, worst case scenario he was granted AND renewed his license in the timeframe from his channel being created to the time he shot these people which means at least at renewal they should have picked up on his incel videos on youtube if they werent on his channel when he first created it. Alternatively the license was granted relatively recently in which case they again 100% should have picked up on this stuff and his demeanor in the interview/ security checks.
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The application process for a firearm/shotgun certificate doesn't ask for any details of social media profiles and even if it did, or if police had the time/resources to trawl the internet for associated accounts for every applicant, it's fairly easy to circumvent that (by not providing the information) and by having accounts in a different name, as was the case with Davison's YouTube channel.
 
Mason- said:
I don't believe that either. We have incredibly strict gun laws as it is, we have very low gun related incidents. I think a lot of the reactions here are over the top and are throwing the baby out with the bathwater. The vast majority of people in Great Britain (excluding NI) who have shotguns have them for valid reasons, Rural/farming related + for sport. I think that people should be free to do those things. I don't think that putting guns in storage at shooting clubs will really do much to lower gun crime, nor would it prevent incidents such as this. I think that more regular checking of people with shotgun licenses is a better deterrent. I think if anyone gets referred to the police for any reason (no matter how minor) and they have a license then the firearms officer should look into them. By the sounds of it, this guy was a bit of a nutter, and if reports are believed he had been reported to the NHS for mental health help. In this scenario his guns should have been confiscated. They weren't. That's a failing.
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This in a nut shell.

The Police & Home Office have made it extremely hard to obtain an SGC nevermind a FAC. The level of background checks is second only to being on the terrorist database for law abiding gun owners in the UK.

Shocking news to hear and I feel awful for the families involved. The man clearly wasn't OK. Warning signs were there and yet, nothing.

It is a failing of the system and the authorities & politicians who implement them.

The media will have a field day with this and law abdiding firearms owners across the UK will pay for it.
 
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bayo000 said:
To be honest I'd consider that as very few. Sure 500k is a lot of people but there're almost 70mil people living in the country so that's less than 1% of the population.
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Tefal said:
0.16% of the 30million working age population?

Less than 0.1% of the voting population?
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6 people died in the uk
or
0.000008571% of the poulation
or
0.06% of the total number of people that died in July (11573 - https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...glandandwalesprovisional/weekending30july2021)

Seems like "very few" people died and now everyone wants new legislation.

Good old stats abuse, works both ways.

For the record in this instance i just think framing it as a percentage of the population is just abusing stats to try and justify your argument. The population of the country is irrelevant.
 
C.R.A.Z.Y said:
It's common sense,
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Sorry, but it isn't. I think it's a singularly ignorant, inaccurate, and stupid statement. Burglars don't normally ring ahead and tell owners when they'll be burgling. Much less attackers. People do not have plenty of time to prepare.

Tefal said:
If there was a referendum do you honestly think the 1%(?) Of the population that owns guns for fun would win?
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Guns are necessary tools for farmers, vets, gamekeepers, and many others.
 
tenofspades said:
Theres two things that should be considered here. One, the attrocity of his act is awful yes. But two his mental state, and him as a person. My post obviously relates to two and shouldn't be twisted to be something is isn't. You know better than that.
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Well I'm afraid it wasn’t clear to me which was why I was taken aback.

But now you have written what you wrote I understand :)
 
tenofspades said:
Theres two things that should be considered here. One, the attrocity of his act is awful yes. But two his mental state, and him as a person. My post obviously relates to two and shouldn't be twisted to be something is isn't. You know better than that.
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Thats a good point, the articles about them (incels) on the BBC seems to only interested in labelling them. Theres no mention of the obvious mental health problems these young men have, no mention of any charities for them to contact, etc.

We are constantly told about the pressures young women have around their looks and how they need supporting, and the myriad of support available to them. Yet when young men feel depressed about theirs they are simply vilified in the national press with no mention of any support available to them, or ways to break out the downwards spiral they are trapped in.
 
wordy said:
Thats a good point, the articles about them (incels) on the BBC seems to only interested in labelling them. Theres no mention of the obvious mental health problems these young men have, no mention of any charities for them to contact, etc.

We are constantly told about the pressures young women have around their looks and how they need supporting, and the myriad of support available to them. Yet when young men feel depressed about theirs they are simply vilified in the national press with no mention of any support available to them, or ways to break out the downwards spiral they are trapped in.
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I agree. This guy seemed dejected and depressed, and lashed out in completely the wrong way. I think he'd be fine in the company of women, I don't think the incel stuff particuarly would have been very helpful for him. The pandemic and isolating people I think has had quite a bad effect on some people.
 
Alice In Wonderland said:
I've just been told that he apparently had his firearms taken away from him after an assault but was then given them back!
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Press are saying his licence and shotgun were returned in July after being removed previously for an allegation of assault. It's being investigated, looks like there has been a serious **** up somewhere.
 
Yeah it looks like a classic case of the government *sort of* getting it right, in terms of them acting on information that he wasn't fit to hold a license, then monumentally dropping the ball by giving it him back...

Somebody somewhere has egg on their face :o
 
wordy said:
Thats a good point, the articles about them (incels) on the BBC seems to only interested in labelling them. Theres no mention of the obvious mental health problems these young men have, no mention of any charities for them to contact, etc.

We are constantly told about the pressures young women have around their looks and how they need supporting, and the myriad of support available to them. Yet when young men feel depressed about theirs they are simply vilified in the national press with no mention of any support available to them, or ways to break out the downwards spiral they are trapped in.
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I agree I didn't think that BBC article was very helpful, even asking if they were a terror threat.

No doubt opportunist politicians will seek to set policy based on the outliers.

The whole situation is very sad, the event itself is tragic enough without the performative hand wringing it will no doubt iniate.
 
Screeeech said:
Yeah it looks like a classic case of the government *sort of* getting it right, in terms of them acting on information that he wasn't fit to hold a license, then monumentally dropping the ball by giving it him back...

Somebody somewhere has egg on their face :o
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It'll be the police won't it, not the government...
 
Roar87 said:
I mean maybe men need to do more to look after each other so these types of people aren't left alone, women tend to have a lot of support but quite obviously men don't have the same networks. There's plenty of men like this guy who simply committed suicide rather than going the extreme route he went.

Quite obviously there are some very toxic parts of the internet where people spend too much time and get indoctrinated into silly ideas, similar I'm sure to how terrorists are groomed though possibly less deliberately malicious - I doubt anyone told this guy to go shoot a load of people.
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This is why I find people like hurfdurf so toxic and infuriating. He gallops into every thread and white knights every time in a horrendously cringe-worthy fashion whereas it's the men that need support and guidance, that is the true and only way to reduce misogyny and promote healthy positive attitudes to the opposite sex. This is why I champion people like Jordan Peterson who really gives good guidance to how men should handle themselves. Once you pass the liberal hand wringing over him and realize he's not alt-right at all then you realize he says is vitally important.

If this guy followed him instead of hanging around 4chan getting increasingly mentally ill this probably wouldn't have happened.
 
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