Ole's sacked, who next?

[_Jimlad_]

Tuchel is also playing with a 37 year old CB who isn't exactly rapid. People really underestimate what a top manager does for a team. Which makes 0 sense because its pretty clear to anyone who watches football that the likes of Guardiola, Tuchel and Klopp are massive factors in their respective clubs fortunes and yet we write off players who haven't done well under awful managers.

Take Liverpool for example. Who on earth would have thought that Matip, Milner, Wijnaldum and Henderson would be part of a sensational Liverpool side. Who thought that Salah would become world class and a balon dor contender when he came to Liverpool. Top managers get the best of players.

Perhaps Maguire will be gone under the next manager. Who knows, but its silly to write anyone off until they have been given a chance.

Chelsea went from being expected to challenge for the title to people saying they have a ****, overpriced squad to being strong league contenders and winning the CL last season.

Managers make a massive different.

I don't disagree with any of that. My post was defending Maguire, I think he's a great CB (disregard recent weeks ) but he has weaknesses and needs protection which yes a good manager would instill with the current players. But I am pretty sure and would be happy to back with money that Fred and McTom would not be first choice after the new permanent manager gets pot of money and a transfer window.

 

[adam cool dude]

I don't disagree with any of that. My post was defending Maguire, I think he's a great CB (disregard recent weeks ) but he has weaknesses and needs protection which yes a good manager would instill with the current players. But I am pretty sure and would be happy to back with money that Fred and McTom would not be first choice after the new permanent manager gets pot of money and a transfer window.

Fred was a revelation for Brazil. I honestly think there is a good player in Fred but he needs to be coached and needs to know a system.

 

[Shamikebab]

I maintain Fred is first choice if we can sign a proper DM to play with him. He's one of the best pressers around and he shows it in a Brazil shirt with Casemiro/Fabinho playing alongside him.

 

[Bigpig]

:/ he's obviously going to have massive input for your next head coach. Just give him what he wants and Manu could stop being the butt of all jokes most Monday mornings.

The Godfather of gegenpressing. Klopp has been on record and said he's the best German coach.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1463911526801317901

 

[The Running Man]

Tuchel is also playing with a 37 year old CB who isn't exactly rapid. People really underestimate what a top manager does for a team. Which makes 0 sense because its pretty clear to anyone who watches football that the likes of Guardiola, Tuchel and Klopp are massive factors in their respective clubs fortunes and yet we write off players who haven't done well under awful managers.

Take Liverpool for example. Who on earth would have thought that Matip, Milner, Wijnaldum and Henderson would be part of a sensational Liverpool side. Who thought that Salah would become world class and a balon dor contender when he came to Liverpool. Top managers get the best of players.

Perhaps Maguire will be gone under the next manager. Who knows, but its silly to write anyone off until they have been given a chance.

Chelsea went from being expected to challenge for the title to people saying they have a ****, overpriced squad to being strong league contenders and winning the CL last season.

Managers make a massive different.

No one can afford Maguire.

He's a lifer now.

 

[fez]

Fred was a revelation for Brazil. I honestly think there is a good player in Fred but he needs to be coached and needs to know a system.

Yeah but you thought United were going to win the league this season so you can't be trusted.

And yes, that is going to come back to bite you for years to come.

 

[adam cool dude]

Yeah but you thought United were going to win the league this season so you can't be trusted.

And yes, that is going to come back to bite you for years to come.

Have to be positive. As much as people hated Ole no one could have foreseen the drop off that we have seen the last few months.

If you go back to the Summer we had strengthened with Ronaldo, Sancho and Varane why wouldn't you think that? Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

 

[fez]

Have to be positive. As much as people hated Ole no one could have foreseen the drop off that we have seen the last few months.

If you go back to the Summer we had strengthened with Ronaldo, Sancho and Varane why wouldn't you think that? Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I've been telling you for years that Ole isn't up to scratch and that results and league positions have flattered us. I also said that Ronaldo isn't a good buy when we got him. You are correct that I didn't think it would go so badly so quickly but i'm almost glad it did because otherwise Ole would still be here in 3 years time without a trophy.

Its not with hindsight that people are saying these things. Its been apparent to a lot of people for a long time. A top squad is needed to win trophies but even more important is a top manager and Ole was not one. Opposition fans are usually a good barometer for how the rest of the world and people who aren't enamoured with the club see things and they have also been saying that Ole is junk for years.

I'm a cynical person but even I couldn't believe the hoops a lot of the Ole-in fans were jumping through to convince themselves he wasn't awful at times.

 

[fez]

Interestingly it seems that Arnold (Woodwards replacement) is actually not an arrogant control freak who understands that to run a modern football club you need the right people making the right decisions.

This Rangnick appointment seems to smack of that as well.

It sounds like he will try to hire people who are actually elite level at their profession and not just hire people to learn on the job AKA jobs for the boys.

Hopefully this will lead to a clean out of all the deadwood at the club from top to bottom and see people brought in with a proven track record.

I'm sure we will **** this up in some way but there is no reason that United shouldn't have one of the best structures in place regardless of the owners lack of ambition when it comes to trophies. A successful club is always richer than an unsuccessful one.

 

[dacads]

Does seem like we are heading in the right direction at least, even though Ole ended up being sacked.

looking forward to what Rangnick makes of this squad.

I think Fred and McT both have a place but a more technical CM is definitely needed especially with Matic and Pogba on their last legs

 

[_Jimlad_]

My concern with an interim is how do you give Pogba and lingard assurances moving forward that they are part of the plans and and we want and sign a new contract? Regardless of what you think of them it's better they sign up and get sold as they are multi million pound assets.

 

[Converge]

My concern with an interim is how do you give Pogba and lingard assurances moving forward that they are part of the plans and and we want and sign a new contract? Regardless of what you think of them it's better they sign up and get sold as they are multi million pound assets.

Lingard will be gone in Jan, and hopefully Pogba too. Signing Pogba up again would be an appalling idea, even if we lose millions. His wages would be insane as well as being completely unwarranted. We need less Pogba’s and more hard working, consistent players.

 

[fez]

My concern with an interim is how do you give Pogba and lingard assurances moving forward that they are part of the plans and and we want and sign a new contract? Regardless of what you think of them it's better they sign up and get sold as they are multi million pound assets.

This isn't how football works. You can't just sign a player to a longer contract and suddenly their value skyrockets and you have all manner of suitors. Pogba is on insane wages currently and with the end of his contract looming he will be able to ask even more from his next club. If United wanted to keep him we would have to up his wages (which we shouldn't do, we should just let him go if we can't sell him in Jan). There are very few clubs that would then want to pay his crazy wages and the hefty transfer fee we would want if we did get him to sign a contract extension. Its quite literally lose/lose for United unless Pogba starts churning out 8/10 performances most of the time. If he does that then again, all the power is with him and he will just walk at the end of the season for even more money.

If we wanted to keep Pogba then we should have signed him on a new contract a year or so ago.

Lingard is the same really. We pay him more than most clubs who would want him can afford and he doesn't seem to be in our plans.

Your sort of thinking is why we have so many overpaid players on long term contracts that we can't give away. An asset is only protectable if its worth something and people want it for the price you would demand.

 

[fez]

On another note. Klopp talking about Rangnick and in a less than subtle way, Ole.

 

[Robbo]

I think Pogba will just be let go. I don't see any other way around it really unless he transforms into an incredibly hard working, consistent player (highly unlikely).

Klopp has been speaking a bit about Rangnick today, with some affection too - nice to hear.

 

[doodah]

How much did we sell him for the first time round again? Under £1m I think. Ouch.

 

[_Jimlad_]

This isn't how football works. You can't just sign a player to a longer contract and suddenly their value skyrockets and you have all manner of suitors. Pogba is on insane wages currently and with the end of his contract looming he will be able to ask even more from his next club. If United wanted to keep him we would have to up his wages (which we shouldn't do, we should just let him go if we can't sell him in Jan). There are very few clubs that would then want to pay his crazy wages and the hefty transfer fee we would want if we did get him to sign a contract extension. Its quite literally lose/lose for United unless Pogba starts churning out 8/10 performances most of the time. If he does that then again, all the power is with him and he will just walk at the end of the season for even more money.

If we wanted to keep Pogba then we should have signed him on a new contract a year or so ago.

Lingard is the same really. We pay him more than most clubs who would want him can afford and he doesn't seem to be in our plans.

Your sort of thinking is why we have so many overpaid players on long term contracts that we can't give away. An asset is only protectable if its worth something and people want it for the price you would demand.

Not really. They are assets and you sometimes need to invest in them before you can flip them.

Neither will sign a new deal based on a interim managers views so you will get nothing for them. That's makes no logical sense. Why would either move in Jan for any fee when they can limp through to may and get even more money ?

So you paid them all year and get nothing back. I would imagine that would amount to a good 150mil in Pogba's case. Letting him leave for free twice is a utter joke.

 

[fez]

Not really. They are assets and you sometimes need to invest in them before you can flip them.

This almost never works when the player has about 6-8 months left on their contract. If they are in demand and wouldn't struggle to find another team, why would they sign a new contract with you to be sold at the same time they would have been able to negotiate a contract with any club they want and for likely a far better wage.

Neither will sign a new deal based on a interim managers views so you will get nothing for them. That's makes no logical sense. Why would either move in Jan for any fee when they can limp through to may and get even more money ?

They probably wouldn't unless the club they were going to was also going to give them similar wages to what they think they could get as a free agent. Thats part of the reason its such a mess. Thats why clubs end up subsidising players wages sometimes.

So you paid them all year and get nothing back. I would imagine that would amount to a good 150mil in Pogba's case. Letting him leave for free twice is a utter joke.

Like I said, there is no good solution to this and its why you don't let players run down their contracts unless you don't care about them leaving for nothing.

Your suggestion to tie them down to a new contract makes 0 sense unless you think they are worth that contract or you think another club will be willing to match that contract and give you a load of money. Which for the aforementioned reasons, is massively unlikely.

 

[_Jimlad_]

This almost never works when the player has about 6-8 months left on their contract. If they are in demand and wouldn't struggle to find another team, why would they sign a new contract with you to be sold at the same time they would have been able to negotiate a contract with any club they want and for likely a far better wage.



They probably wouldn't unless the club they were going to was also going to give them similar wages to what they think they could get as a free agent. Thats part of the reason its such a mess. Thats why clubs end up subsidising players wages sometimes.



Like I said, there is no good solution to this and its why you don't let players run down their contracts unless you don't care about them leaving for nothing.

Your suggestion to tie them down to a new contract makes 0 sense unless you think they are worth that contract or you think another club will be willing to match that contract and give you a load of money. Which for the aforementioned reasons, is massively unlikely.

I get what your saying and part of me wants them both to go, with Jones, Matic and Mata.

My point being though that an interim manager is not best placed to deal with these matters.

Say poch came in now and first meeting was with Pogba. I wanna build a team around you, your my man ect ect does that change his contract situation.

I suspect both will leave for free and to me a business person it shocks me that Manchester United have allowed assets to be in a position to leave for nothing.

I am even more staggered at PSG for allowing Mbap to do the same.

 

[fez]

I get what your saying and part of me wants them both to go, with Jones, Matic and Mata.

All three of them should be gone asap for sure. We need to buy at least 2 midfielders, preferably one in January if a decent one is available. That kind of relies on us having a strong indication who will be our full time manager going forwards though.

My point being though that an interim manager is not best placed to deal with these matters.

Say poch came in now and first meeting was with Pogba. I wanna build a team around you, your my man ect ect does that change his contract situation.

It potentially does but as I said, we would still have to pay him whatever he thinks he could get as a free agent and then we would be stuck with him for another X years and be unable to sell him. COVID has hit a lot of clubs for 6 so his suitors now are quite limited. If we pay him even more then we would be mad.

I suspect both will leave for free and to me a business person it shocks me that Manchester United have allowed assets to be in a position to leave for nothing.

I am even more staggered at PSG for allowing Mbap to do the same.

Oh its complete madness but thats United for you. We are awfully run. The Mbappe thing is because the owners in charge of PSG care more about the optics of it than they do about the money. The money is clearly an irrelevance to them or they would have sold for ridiculous money in the summer. They just don't want to be seen as a club that gets held to ransom by a player, even if it makes them look even more stupid when he leaves for nothing next summer. I assume they have some vague hope they can convince him to sign a new contract as well.