Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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Soldato
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Ha yea, we're the bullies, not the psychopathic dictators.

Do yourself a favour, spend some time watching this video, sounds like you'd learn a bit.


I'm think about (but not limiting too) things like complaining about countries as being tax havens and leaning on them a little when various states in the US and the BoT are some of the best tax havens on earth. Do yourself a favour :p
 
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Soldato
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True but we have the numbers and the aircrew receive more training
As said the numbers aren't as important as they normally would be when diluted by 20 different chains of command/supply/etc, a 2:1 advantage is not enough to guarantee victory with that handicap. The training varies from state to state, some EU members train their air crews more than Russia does, some don't.


not to mention we have plenty of 5th gen aircraft that Russia has practically zero
The combined EU air forces have 49 5th gen aircraft (NB: Delivered, number actually in service may be lower) compared to Russia's 12, however that is an almost negligible amount when discussing a hypothetical air war involving close to 2500 planes. Especially when considering that Russia has more gen 4++ planes than any other nation, and that a 5th gen plane is essentially just a 4++ gen with better stealth. Stealth being far less useful when operating over/near the territory of an enemy with cutting edge radar/SAM systems than it is when bombing mud huts (which is all we've ever seen the F-35 do).


they all train together ala red flag and we have been in plenty of conflicts with air forces working in unison.
Only a handful of EU members have attended red flag and hardly any were there at the same year. Only a handful of EU air forces have worked together in previous conflicts, there were four involved in Iraq and three involved in Afghanistan (and of those only two were involved in both). There were nine EU member states involved in the Libyan civil war, which considering we won that war from the air without even committing ground forces would normally be good when referencing a possible air war in support of Ukraine, however in Libya the EU air forces ran out of supplies and had to be saved by the USA. The problem with using that tactic over Ukraine is that unlike the planes the UK/France/etc sent to Libya most of the EU planes aren't compatible with the munitions the US would be using.

I'm telling you it would not be anywhere near as easy as you think for the combined EU air forces to win an air war over hostile SAMs against a single unified air force even with a 2:1 advantage.
 
Soldato
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I can assure you that if we played our cards right after dissolution of Soviet Union - Russia would be a place we get cheap fossils from and China would be a manufacturing warehouse of the world with both being extremely friendly and loyal. We could have made sure neither had ICBM's. When Iron Curtain fell, Russians thought the US/West were really as good as they said and all their woes came from communism. Instead they spent all their 90's 'democratic' years literally starving to death and seeing 10 year olds prostituting themselves for food. Then came authoritarian Putin the saviour. Could you imagine if we actually supported Russia in 90's what we could have achieved?? We'd have one of most loyal populations on earth and CCP would never had a chance to last in China.

We had a chance to dominate world long term - instead we spent it on bombing couple countries under false pretence and ****** it all away. To the point Russia and China now feel like all that Cold War stuff about how great America and West were/are is all false. 30 years ago we had both of them thinking we're the best thing since sliced bread. Now they realize we are full of crap and nothing good is coming from us at all - quite frankly if they kill us they'd be better off.

So we got this:



From This

https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Eur...sians-loved-the-US.-Where-did-it-all-go-wrong

We aren't to blame for Russian corruption. The black market had been keeping Russians going for years, communism fell and the new government sold off all the state assets for peanuts for kickbacks. A few became billionaires and the people were left with nothing. I can't see what we could have done to prevent that. Putin just stepped in and made them all give him a massive chuck of their ill gotten gains and he would protect them. We all saw what happened to those that refused. The idea he is for the Russian people is pure propaganda.

I can't see anyone invading Russia. There is no appetite for such a war. At the same time Russia can't be allowed to expand its borders into sovereign countries like Ukraine. We should be making it crystal clear that an invasion will not be tolerated. Should probably have invited Ukraine into the EU and maybe even NATO. Yeah Putin would have freaked but invading a EU and NATO member would be a huge risk from his point of view.
 
Man of Honour
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All we'd probably do is write a strongly worded letter if they invade. Nobody wants a war with Russia.

I saw on BBC news that a video call is being set up for next Tuesday, where Biden and Putin will discuss the tension surrounding Russia’s troop build up along Ukraine’s border.
I can visualise it going something like this;
Biden, any threat of invasion by Russian forces will be met with stiff resistance.
Putin, yeah? by you and whose army?
Biden, zzzzzzzzzzzzzz
 
Soldato
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As said the numbers aren't as important as they normally would be when diluted by 20 different chains of command/supply/etc, a 2:1 advantage is not enough to guarantee victory with that handicap. The training varies from state to state, some EU members train their air crews more than Russia does, some don't.



The combined EU air forces have 49 5th gen aircraft (NB: Delivered, number actually in service may be lower) compared to Russia's 12, however that is an almost negligible amount when discussing a hypothetical air war involving close to 2500 planes. Especially when considering that Russia has more gen 4++ planes than any other nation, and that a 5th gen plane is essentially just a 4++ gen with better stealth. Stealth being far less useful when operating over/near the territory of an enemy with cutting edge radar/SAM systems than it is when bombing mud huts (which is all we've ever seen the F-35 do).



Only a handful of EU members have attended red flag and hardly any were there at the same year. Only a handful of EU air forces have worked together in previous conflicts, there were four involved in Iraq and three involved in Afghanistan (and of those only two were involved in both). There were nine EU member states involved in the Libyan civil war, which considering we won that war from the air without even committing ground forces would normally be good when referencing a possible air war in support of Ukraine, however in Libya the EU air forces ran out of supplies and had to be saved by the USA. The problem with using that tactic over Ukraine is that unlike the planes the UK/France/etc sent to Libya most of the EU planes aren't compatible with the munitions the US would be using.

I'm telling you it would not be anywhere near as easy as you think for the combined EU air forces to win an air war over hostile SAMs against a single unified air force even with a 2:1 advantage.


I think you really need to look at inter NATO/EU air forces, also you do realise the vast majority of aircraft are American so not sure where this munitions incompatibility comes from?

F16/f18/typhoon/f35/Rafael/grippen? What struggles?
What weapons will they struggle to arm?

The whole of NATO and it's command structure or any western military operation is multi nation nowadays, usually with American CC

Red flag and numerous exercises are held every single year, they also swap pilots/ground crews etc.
We have just had Swiss f-18s over here, plus the obvious American presence,plus French and German.

The only thing Russia has is it's much vaunted s-500s and whispers say isreali f/35s bypassed them, plus not to mention they are sat on the ground.

You need to look up your numbers again with regards to them numbers... Russia has not used or proven thier very few stealth aircraft are any good, unlike the western counterparts.
They have how many actually combat ready again!?

300 roughly alone typhoons are in the EU, su-35 the Russian equivalent fighter is under 100 in number, so not sure what aircraft you think are equal to typhoon/gripen/Rafael in any air to air role?
 
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Caporegime
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I saw on BBC news that a video call is being set up for next Tuesday, where Biden and Putin will discuss the tension surrounding Russia’s troop build up along Ukraine’s border.
I can visualise it going something like this;
Biden, any threat of invasion by Russian forces will be met with stiff resistance.
Putin, yeah? by you and whose army?
Biden, zzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Or he'll explain to Putin how he shot Hitler in WW2, and wrestled Genghis Khan on a beach in Miami, and even won the War of the Worlds again the Martians in '68.

A lot will depend on what cocktail of drugs he's on that day.

Still honestly can't believe he's POTUS, and still don't think he'll make it to the end of his term.
 
Caporegime
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This, China has been ramping up it's flights towards Taiwan and the rhetoric, would not surprise me if they both act in unison, would stretch the US response.
Would be amazed if the response to either was any more than "a strong condemnation".

The only people we've actually gone to war with recently are those living in mud huts, mountains or tents in the desert.
 
Soldato
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Would be amazed if the response to either was any more than "a strong condemnation".

The only people we've actually gone to war with recently are those living in mud huts, mountains or tents in the desert.

Countries without nuclear weapons. Sabre rattling by the Russians and the Chinese plays well at home, but they know that a hot war against NATO forces stands a good chance of escalating rapidly.
 
Caporegime
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Countries without nuclear weapons. Sabre rattling by the Russians and the Chinese plays well at home, but they know that a hot war against NATO forces stands a good chance of escalating rapidly.
Sure but they aren't going to be attacking NATO countries. Moreover, China considers Taiwan to be an internal matter. It would be extremely hard for the West to justify (to their own populace as much as anything) an attack on China to defend Taiwan. Almost as difficult would be to justify an attack on Russia to defend Eastern Ukraine, which already has a separatist movement trying break away from Ukraine.

And we can't denounce Russia for stoking that fire. How many times have the CIA (etc) tried to provoke regime change in foreign lands. Yeah... lots.
 
Associate
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I think you really need to look at inter NATO/EU air forces, also you do realise the vast majority of aircraft are American so not sure where this munitions incompatibility comes from?

F16/f18/typhoon/f35/Rafael/grippen? What struggles?
What weapons will they struggle to arm?

The whole of NATO and it's command structure or any western military operation is multi nation nowadays, usually with American CC

Red flag and numerous exercises are held every single year, they also swap pilots/ground crews etc.
We have just had Swiss f-18s over here, plus the obvious American presence,plus French and German.

The only thing Russia has is it's much vaunted s-500s and whispers say isreali f/35s bypassed them, plus not to mention they are sat on the ground.

You need to look up your numbers again with regards to them numbers... Russia has not used or proven thier very few stealth aircraft are any good, unlike the western counterparts.
They have how many actually combat ready again!?

300 roughly alone typhoons are in the EU, su-35 the Russian equivalent fighter is under 100 in number, so not sure what aircraft you think are equal to typhoon/gripen/Rafael in any air to air role?

Russian whispers claim they are able to detect F22's and F35's.
 

Deleted member 236143

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Deleted member 236143

Really no danger of western involvement with Ukraine. If it was worth any salt the ideal move would be to build a very large UN peacekeeping force to be ready.
would not be surprised if some incident like a plane falling out the sky or some skirmish leads to a Russian advance and containing the border. US will want to sanction etc maybe even ban Russia from summits and world events etc
 
Caporegime
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Really no danger of western involvement with Ukraine. If it was worth any salt the ideal move would be to build a very large UN peacekeeping force to be ready.
but they wouldn'y it would be a token force of plebs unable to do anything but make their coountries look weak.
everyones weak these days.

UK should man up and just tell putin straight if he invades ukraine we will just drop a tactical nuke directly on the border.

it's like WW2 appeasement all over again... hitler wants that thing let him have it.

totally isolate and cut russia off... whys everyone not sick of this crap by now.

ahh yes germany and france need the gas so we ruin the whole of europe for it
 

Deleted member 236143

D

Deleted member 236143

Probably a job you should not go for is general army, eh tactics, politics, or any kind of diplomacy.
 
Man of Honour
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Russian whispers claim they are able to detect F22's and F35's.

You can modify ancient Russian VHF systems to detect pretty much any stealth aircraft out there - actually having the resolution and accuracy to do something useful with that detection is another matter.

I saw on BBC news that a video call is being set up for next Tuesday, where Biden and Putin will discuss the tension surrounding Russia’s troop build up along Ukraine’s border.
I can visualise it going something like this;
Biden, any threat of invasion by Russian forces will be met with stiff resistance.
Putin, yeah? by you and whose army?
Biden, zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Surprised he isn't avoiding it considering their last meeting Biden ended up politically outplayed and so frustrated and angry he lashed out at a journalist (even if the journalist deserved it).

It'll be more tough talk, probably no delivery from Biden.
 
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Deleted member 236143

D

Deleted member 236143

T 14 Armata is probably thee best tank on the planet.

A single Russian nuclear sub could end the UK in a single day.

The game of Risk has changed. Although this is about the Ukraine. Interesting to see how quickly it becomes them and us. Never mind the people in the Ukraine!

This is about GAS reserves. Russia will secure what it needs and not let reserves fall to europe.
Monsters?

The US have fought nearly every war in 40 years for oil and gas.
No difference.
 
Man of Honour
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T 14 Armata is probably thee best tank on the planet.

T-14 is plagued with teething problems and there are probably not more than a dozen actually operational and even the production run of 100 by the end of 2022 is in doubt. There is a reason they've quietly upgraded 100s if not 1000s of T-80s.

I'd be betting on UK armour any day in an actual conflict, even heavily outnumbered, assuming they actually went into battle with full equipment and maintenance :s we seem to have an embarrassing habit of trying to rely on reputation rather than actually equip our forces.

A single Russian nuclear sub could end the UK in a single day.

Russia's existing active arsenal could turn every inch of the UK into glass... 1000 times over... and the only defence against that other than MAD is the Type 45s (and to a limited extent a small number of other ships) which is just embarrassing again that we have such a gap in our capabilities albeit if it came to it there would be much more in play than a few missiles. Our QRA capabilities would be overwhelmed in an instance in an actual hot situation are we just aren't ready for a real peer threat going on the offensive.
 
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