Soldato
Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar
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Soldato
The EU/UK militaries have a good edge on Russia in almost every way, other than nukes, and SAMs. The issue is the divisions in the EU and lack of will.
Soldato
An excellent summary. NATO has been “poking the bear” since the WP broke up and then put the icing on the cake by destabilising the Ukraine, a good percentage of whose population consider themselves at least ethnic Russians anyway.
I can’t understand anyone being surprised that Russia had military forces in place to secure their one Black Sea base…
I was looking forward to the "Call up" posts
So you would rather we sat back and did didly squat? Would you have applied your call up post pre ww2 etc?
Where has NATO been poking the bear?
You are saying those countries that joined shouldn't have? They joined because that are affraid of what Russia did to them and has shown to do in today's world, NATO offers them protection from thier bully boy tactics.
Russia only has itself to blame for everything, maybe they should have treated the annexed countries better than they did.
I'd hope more people would tell the government to sling their hook if that ever occured.I was looking forward to the "Call up" posts
Soldato
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No idea why, they have more untouched landmass than anyone else, Russia is huge.
Soldato
As I mentioned above, that's a very "western" viewpoint and one that is very limited because of that - now imagine instead that you are Russian and then look again at how this looks to Russia - if you are Russian (i.e. looking at this from a Russian POV and not your "western" POV) and youu see NATO getting closer to your country, what does it look like to you?
Personally I complete agree with your point below -
However that ignores centuries of what being a Russian is. They have acted the same way for so long that they had no other way of acting when they annexed those countries, so to them they were just doing there what they did at home, so they've no idea why those foreign people hated them.
30+ million dead from various invaders, thats 1/2 the UK gone just fighting off invaders, plus Moscow is very close to their Western border where most of their invaders have come from. If it was me I'd want as much space between me and more invaders as possible!
This is actually a flat out lie from Julia Davis. Does she work for the Guardian? I mean I am well aware that journalists bend their truth and have their own bias along with the outlet's bias but a flat out lie is a new one. Interesting. Edit: She is not from the guardian, she is from the daily beast. makes sense.
I tracked down the video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMKzvvwRWqg
What Maria Zakharova said is that (and I am paraphrasing): "We consider Ukraine and Georgia sovereign nations but NATO doesn't". I mean what Maria said here is utterly stupid but it does not change the fact that she said the opposite of what Julia Davis claims.
This is why sooner or later we will go to war. Probably sooner than later. Russians and us (in the west) can only see our own viewpoint and think its absolutely righteous and other side is being stupid. This is why all talks are breaking down, Russians for real are thinking that we're coming for them. We think Russians are coming for Europe. There seems to be no other way to diffuse the situation apart from war that would have loser and winner.
Propaganda on both sides is running rampant, some Russians did not believe it but in days of internet its easy to log onto reddit or watch Blinken/Biden/Stoltenberg speech translated and all those basically confirm the Russian propaganda that they are feeding to its own population.
Russia at this point is more paranoid than US during Cuban missile crisis that the attack is imminent.
We might have an edge but its not vast enough to secure minimal losses for ourselves. The issue with Russians is that they can take tens of millions dead and still go on. Do I or you really want to go fight in Ukraine or Poland against the Ivans? Its not fighting Taliban, we will have a lot of losses even in conventional war. You can be rest assured that China will use this as an opportunity to go after their region. They will also most likely re-enforce Russian forces on European front.
Lastly, I would not count on the US coming to save the day especially if we lose a lot of ground in Europe. If odds start to look stark, I would not be surprised if US pulls out all-together for assurances of not being nuked. For most Americans all of this stuff is so far away, they're happy to bomb the likes of Taliban in comfort but actually fighting real armies with millions of casualties and risk of having your homeland turned to radioactive dust is not their thing. Considering that whatever happens in Europe or Asia is not anywhere close to them.
Ultimately would a John in Iowa risk being nuked over Ukraine? I don't think so. I don't think he'll even risk it for Berlin Rome or london. As soon as US will have to run conscription, the war would be over.
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There will not be a full war. Just proxy wars that will probably get very nasty. If they have a full war they know that it will be total misery with a loser and a loser
My concern is that Europe could be a 'proxy' place for a war. We have this belief that for US or ourselves that acceptable 'proxy war' is in Ukraine while it can be whole continent at this point.
Like I said, my issue is that if things get boiling the US can tell us to slug it out ourselves, amongst ourselves for securities that USA itself will not get bombed with nukes.
An edge? I don't think the EU has any major advancement over Russia in terms of military strength or technology to the degree that it's certain to win a conflict. Other than say Naval but when they occupy the largest landmass on the planet Naval is it's not exactly a big disadvantage. Their submarine fleet would still cause plenty of havoc. Heck even if the US were involved and somehow managed to teleport their entire army to any of the Baltic states Russia could likely still hold out with the EU in tow also.
Russia should be treated as a killer beehive we shouldn't rustle it benefits nobody and everyone loses. Not only that the planet loses too.
EU air forces are vastly superior to the Russian air force, the big thing the EU nations all lack is a large amount of long range artillery, the queen of the battlefield, unfortunately the west has neglected the heavy anything aspect as it assumed Russia no longer posed a threat.
That and pure numbers of men/tanks and artillery means we would lose any war of attrition, with no US help.
All this talk of not upsetting Russia is balls, they are the bullies, they are invading countries, countries that are affraid of Russia and as a result are driven to NATO to make sure Putin doesn't decide they actually speak Russian and need 'liberating'
It's not about upsetting them, it's about their response and Europe being the battleground for US-Russian conflict with all the fun things that come from having a major conflict nearby.
So what you are saying is let Putin annex whatever he wants.
Sounds like appeasement, ask Chamberlain how that works out with madmen.
It's not US v Russia, this is about eastern European nations deciding what they what to do and partner with, tough luck the little mad man doesn't like it.
Why should Ukraine be a martyr ?why shouldn't we stick up for them and other eastern nations in face of these threats.
Issue is that your general population Ivan sees the west/nato/USA as the bullies. We have given Putin more arsenal in his propaganda war with our involvement in likes of Iraq on totally fabricated evidence. Our actions in Libya where we pushed resolution through the UN about no fly zone and then proceeded to bomb Ghedaffi forces. Both countries are now laying in total ruins and that is one of the examples in recent time.
Even during Ukraine's revolution we first signed an agreement that Yanukovich was to stand down and have elections in 6 months. Then we proceeded to support physical over-throwing of government with support of Ukranian far right groups. They signed Association with EU that we accepted while literally having a sitting coup government in office.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agreement_on_settlement_of_political_crisis_in_Ukraine
Then prior to that during Georgian conflict we all made sure to paint Russia as the aggressor only at the end to conclude it was Georgia that started the conflict.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Respo...ar#EU_Independent_Fact_Finding_Mission_Report
All of this is gold-mine for putins propaganda.
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Not really, I didn't say any of this. Not sure why you are sayings this.
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